tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post6022135889181953757..comments2023-10-23T09:23:22.051-04:00Comments on Your Schools: Gates Foundation launching new CMS PR blitzUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-25617468487863104522011-07-28T09:36:15.299-04:002011-07-28T09:36:15.299-04:00To change a corporate or school culture, you have ...To change a corporate or school culture, you have to be strong and focused. The current culture in many schools is dictated by home life, rap music, a culture of school, proper English and proper dress being totally uncool. We like to think that we can take thugs and turn them into cleancut, clean shaven, law abiding, studious graduates. What happens when you take a group of these folks is that the thugs dictate the overall tone of a school. They help reinforce bad behavior, bad speaking patterns, bad dress, etc. Laying down the law about appropriate behavior and fighting for the students you can save and who care is the only way. Teachers and administrators who kowtow lose this battle. I think CMS must demand high standards and challenge those to reach them. The bad apples have to be escorted out or to an alternative school. Lets test, but test those who are trying. Let's make it a privilege to go to CMS...not a necessary evil. I challenge anyone on this board to go to a CD store and ask for a hard core rap CD and listen to the whole thing. I promise that you will be shocked at the violence and total disrespect toward women. We are in a war for our kids and don't even know it. To many parents don't parent and let rap and the streets educate their children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-8467820761640960762011-07-27T18:49:25.014-04:002011-07-27T18:49:25.014-04:00CMS lays off hundreds.....CMS rehires hundreds.......CMS lays off hundreds.....CMS rehires hundreds.....Déjà vu all over again!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-67774886376662302432011-07-23T11:23:24.842-04:002011-07-23T11:23:24.842-04:00Jeff, You seem to be saying we need to stop focusi...Jeff, You seem to be saying we need to stop focusing on testing and instead concentrate on custom learning for each child's particular needs. However, you don't have any concrete suggestions on how your system could be implemented or the success could be measured. <br /><br />You appear to be well meaning, but I'm not sure that you would really improve CMS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-13488172125257230832011-07-22T10:29:53.931-04:002011-07-22T10:29:53.931-04:00Jeff, I really like some of your ideas, especially...Jeff, I really like some of your ideas, especially that we have to look at the individual student, because every child begins their school career at a different place (ability level) and from a variety of backgrounds. <br /><br />I do have a few thoughts on some of your comments though. If I'm not mistaken, IEP's are legal documents and take a considerable amount of time to prepare. There are observations of the student in their learning environment and one-on-one and meetings with their parents, teachers, support staff, and administrators. They are part of the Response to Intervention process. This approach would not be necessary or appropriate for EVERY student. <br /><br />Additionally, in CMS struggling students (performing below grade level but not in need of an IEP)have a PEP, which also details what actions are to be done at home and at school to help the child be successful. These are also time intensive and detailed. <br /><br />As for pacing guides, teachers have to have a "road map" of where they are going so they will know when they get there, but I agree with you that there has to be some flexibility. The NCSCOS (Standard Course of Study) is set by the NC Dept. of Public Instruction. It outlines specific goals and objects to be taught by subject and grade level. I believe DPI is currently in the process of overhauling these standards. <br /><br />Pacing guides are useful tools and should be just that--guides. Again it's up to the teacher to find ways to cover all the material and meet the needs of their students at the same time. Integration of subject matter is a useful way to do this and mirrors the real world. <br /><br />One thing teachers must possess is the ability to present the material in a variety of ways that interest and engage studetns. When that happens, behavior tends to improve. Of course their may be behavior problems that are unrelated to the classroom. Just like adults, children don't leave their outside influences at the door.<br /><br />We need to find ways to support teachers through continuing educational opportunities, mentoring, support in dealing with behavior issues, and seeking their input on future plans if we want our schools to succeed. I would be more impressed with the Gates Foundation if it focused on the classroom instead of PR. If our classrooms are successful, PR will take care of itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-25887119185262122902011-07-22T10:05:15.285-04:002011-07-22T10:05:15.285-04:00Jeff here is the chart that got me started. Of co...Jeff here is the chart that got me started. Of course when this orgainzation first put this cghart out, they were trying to make it look like we were not spending any extra money on thse kids. <br /><br />http://www.swannfellowship.org/Archive/2008/080321PerformanceAndPoverty.htm<br /><br />They had even left off the spedning per pupil indicator to confuse the public.<br /><br />I think through the CMS web site, you can print out subsequent years of data. However, I pulled pdf pages and picked off the same data points and put then all into an excel spreadsheet. What I wanted to do was to create an acees database so you could show each school over the course of years. I have not had time to polish it up but you can read across the spreadsheet and get the point.therestofthestorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-53627930831671051442011-07-22T00:14:31.858-04:002011-07-22T00:14:31.858-04:00@therestotthestory
I'd be interested in seei...@therestotthestory <br /><br />I'd be interested in seeing the data you have going back to 2004. I've poked around with some data sets, but nothing back that far. It sounds like you've got some good comparisons running and I'm curious to see what it looks like, if you'd be willing to share.Jeff Wisehttp://www.votejeffwise.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-62588700903732646772011-07-22T00:10:49.750-04:002011-07-22T00:10:49.750-04:00@Anonymous 11:11AM July 21
Definitely do not want...@Anonymous 11:11AM July 21<br /><br />Definitely do not want to dumb things down, or cater to the lowest common denominator.<br /><br />I'd like to figure out how we can bring the individual back into education.<br /><br />When I first took over the IT Group at my job, the mantra was "we treat everyone the same. From the owners to the newly hired drafters."<br /><br />That just bothered me and I told my folks to stop saying it. We treat everyone individually based on their situation and personality.<br /><br />At our peak before the recession, we were closing in on 250 users and we knew everybody personally and their personality quirks.<br /><br />Applying that to Charlotte-Mecklenburg schools, we see, for example, that 30 2nd graders are assigned to a teacher and they stick with that teacher all year long (with maybe a few exceptions).<br /><br />What would happen if some of those students were switched to a teacher with a different teaching style? What if one teacher wanted to take on 35 students so another could take only 20?<br /><br />In short, what if we looked at education as an individualized process instead of relying on pacing guides and things like that?<br /><br />If it brought 10% of the trouble students back to the mainstream, is that worthwhile?Jeff Wisehttp://www.votejeffwise.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-16954239654496880922011-07-21T23:55:39.402-04:002011-07-21T23:55:39.402-04:00@Anonymous, 2:37p, July 20
You make a good point....@Anonymous, 2:37p, July 20<br /><br />You make a good point. In a situation like that, the teacher should discuss the class make-up with the principal and/or dean of students and figure out a way to either move some students around or work on getting the stragglers on to an alternate path to get them involved.<br /><br />This goes back to my concern that there's so much focus on students being pushed through the same standardized education process, that the focus is trying to get all the students to a similar level rather than playing to the strengths of individual students.<br /><br />Easier said than done, I fully understand that. Never hurts to try though.Jeff Wisehttp://www.votejeffwise.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-89603243353375923552011-07-21T20:40:36.735-04:002011-07-21T20:40:36.735-04:006:53 PM
Look at the example in the movie Lean on ...6:53 PM<br /><br />Look at the example in the movie Lean on Me. Cull out the few of real trouble makers and leaders of disruption, you will save an additional 15 to 20% of the students you did not save before. Remember the saying, "a few bad apples will spoil the barrel".<br /><br />The deal is though with MeckEd involved and more than likely getting a Broad graduate for superintendent, all they are after is making a name for themselves closing the achievement gap in an urban school system.TROTSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-10034367576798105962011-07-21T18:53:28.323-04:002011-07-21T18:53:28.323-04:00We always focus on the minority kid from the broke...We always focus on the minority kid from the broken home with several siblings who is struggling to make it who needs free health care, FRL, Sec. 8, food stamps, etc. We say that that kid has no hope. We ignore the middle class white kid who starts out wanting to learn but has two parents who are working hard and don't give him/her attention. We throw that kid in a bad school and he gets caught up in the culture and never makes it. Again, the question is: do we focus on just the kids who want to learn and push them? Or, do we worry about the lowest common denominator and provide this lovely social experience to keep these folks off the street. I would love for our new superintendent to be dogged in saying that CMS is about learning and if you are not willing to successfully be integrated into this process, you are out. If he did that, how many kids would be on the street?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-7867983983534897012011-07-21T15:40:09.550-04:002011-07-21T15:40:09.550-04:00Wiley, yes CMS does not want to have FRL audited f...Wiley, yes CMS does not want to have FRL audited for the exact reason yo umention. Second, they abuse the EC classification on students becuase of the same reason, more money fro mthe feds. There was an article last year on CMS's cafeteria operations. I think it was written to somewhat paint the picture of unpaid school lunches. However, easily reading between the lines you realized they needed the FRL fraud to maintain anything near breakeven.<br /><br />In the 1980's and 90's, there was an achievement test CMS used to "score" the schools. Every time scores started dropping, they did district reassignments moving as many middle class white families into struggling schools. That way they couldargued the poibnt you made that now with all these changes, the scores were meaningless. I know because we were in Ransom area then got reassigned to Northridge then got bounced back to Ransom over the course of 3 years.<br /><br />Old trick they are taught somewhere along the way to the lobotomy as a PhD in Education.TROTSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-38129689116689339302011-07-21T15:14:41.591-04:002011-07-21T15:14:41.591-04:00TROTS,
Why do you think CMS and the BOE take a ha...TROTS,<br /><br />Why do you think CMS and the BOE take a hands-off approach to FRL?<br /><br />The more on it, the more money CMS gets.<br /><br />If you look at the latest report just posted in the front page of the online Observer, 5 years worth of data, some are only up 1 or 2 percentage points over FIVE YEARS.<br /><br />Is that progress?<br /><br />Smoke and mirrors baby.<br /><br />The excuses for the next 5 years will be the fact 10 schools were closed and some elementary and middle schools were merged.<br /><br />Store that away in the back of your mind somewhere because it will come up, just as the lower test scores for this year are being excused away because of all the "new testing".Wiley Coyotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16966764080565903720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-79165864619695392882011-07-21T15:03:47.358-04:002011-07-21T15:03:47.358-04:00Wiley, I think the only interesting thing to say a...Wiley, I think the only interesting thing to say about it now as we saw last year is that CMS may have exhausted those strategies to make scores look better than they were. For example, after some time we finally saw where the number of students taking certain tests dramatically feel from the previous year to last year. <br /><br />While I full-heartedly agree those students which have missed at least 10 days of school should not have their scores negatively impact the teacher or school evaluations, too many disagree.<br /><br />Last year, Pam put me onto NCreportcards.org. I quickly lost confidence in it because it misrepresented class sizes at several high schools I had the data for and you could not coorelate the scores they had with what CMS was reporting in the $ per pupil spreadsheets.<br /><br />Bottom line, the data is created by the school system. Massaged by the state and spit back out without enough data to back check. One other thing, the also inferred that CMS had surpassed Wake County in disadvantaged students' performances. However when I went back to other CMS data, like the $ per pupil spending, those icreases were not apparent. It is almost like someone had played with the data for political purposes.therestofhtestorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-44247156324983372672011-07-21T14:42:47.579-04:002011-07-21T14:42:47.579-04:00Soooo....
In the spirit of owning up to mistakes,...Soooo....<br /><br />In the spirit of owning up to mistakes, can we all agree CMS needs to own up to the mistakes they have made, as is shown in the dismal report released today on AYP by school?Wiley Coyotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16966764080565903720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-63970786975777283142011-07-21T13:01:31.344-04:002011-07-21T13:01:31.344-04:00Wiley,
As the comment thread indicates, we all ma...Wiley,<br /><br />As the comment thread indicates, we all make mistakes, myself included. The key, as you note, is being willing to "own" them and make the necessary adjustments, rather than trying to cover them up or explain them away. <br /><br />8:15 you're absolutely right. That's why folks need to look at the data, do their own math, and question those who seem to have obtained different results.Pamela Grundynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-82803307953468878472011-07-21T11:50:11.159-04:002011-07-21T11:50:11.159-04:00Anon 8:13...Pam...
I do see where I made the erro...Anon 8:13...Pam...<br /><br />I do see where I made the error, as I took 8.2% of the under 18yo number (239,103) instead of the total population. <br /><br />I did the 18 and under first to get the 239,103 which is correct but then failed to go back to the total population to get the 8.2% which results in 75,409 under 5.<br /><br />That gives us the 163,000 5 to 18yo number.<br /><br />That's why I said in the very first post, check my numbers because I was doing it very quickly going out the door.<br /><br />My mistake, I own it.Wiley Coyotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16966764080565903720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-91615084323171233122011-07-21T11:45:04.482-04:002011-07-21T11:45:04.482-04:00Forgot to add to that the current strategy for edu...Forgot to add to that the current strategy for educrats particularly those who want to make a name for themselves of closing the achievement gap is to either run off the higher end students, limit higher end opportunities, or dumbdown the curriculum. <br /><br />CMS does double speak as they rely on the outlliers they can not touch, Ardrey Kell, Providence, a few programs at South Meck, North Meck, Hopewell, and on and on to publicize how much money in scholarships the graduates earned, or admissions to Ivy League schools to show how bright students are still served. I know how that kind of publicity makes several board members very angry.therestofthestorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-43326301133842107702011-07-21T11:37:32.785-04:002011-07-21T11:37:32.785-04:00Yes that explains much of the exodus, white and br...Yes that explains much of the exodus, white and bright flight. Larry has newer figures of middle class black families leaving CMS. The BOE with pressure from MeckACTS has really been limiting academic opportunity for the higher end students. Examples are shutting down out of area IB at Myers Park, shutting down busing to magnet schools, overcrowding non FOCUS classrooms, running off the teachers who are qualified to teach higher end courses, and I can go on and on with examples.therestofthestorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-53507775831816199942011-07-21T11:11:34.529-04:002011-07-21T11:11:34.529-04:00So, is CMS more interested in "saving" h...So, is CMS more interested in "saving" high poverty students to give them some skills and keep them in school or helping those who want to soar academically. Can we do both? If you cater to the lowest common denominator, you get dumbed down results. Middle class families don't want to send their kids to CMS schools that are dumbed down. Larry? Jeff? Buelller?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-86679955727484598812011-07-21T11:05:24.732-04:002011-07-21T11:05:24.732-04:00Thanks, I have data from back to 2004 showing the ...Thanks, I have data from back to 2004 showing the incredible spending per child in these schools and the lack of progress. Mostly what I guess you run into is the continual entry and continual promotion of a set of kids and the lack of being to trace certain kids over time to see if strategies implemented in earlier years have long term sustainable effects. <br /><br />For example, if you talk to K teachers abouot the kids they have from BB, they will tell you how much difference they can tell from the kids that did not get BB. However now in teh K class, the non BB kids get the extra attention and by 3rd grade, the BB kids have lost that differentiation. But as you might expect, data colection to prove or disprove any program gives you like value for the dollars spent is wholefully inadequate.therestotthestorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-70538431366287021162011-07-21T09:31:00.374-04:002011-07-21T09:31:00.374-04:00Rest of the Story, Your point ties right in with m...Rest of the Story, Your point ties right in with my point about "mistakes" with data or "misspeaks". For years the spin was that the suburban schools and students got so much more than the urban schools--had to be true because of differences in outcomes. After continually hearing this, much of the public (and unfortunately some in the press) began to take this as gospel truth, with little questioning of those who claimed this and with much trashing of anyone who dared say otherwise. So, when the great truth came out about actual funding (one cannot attribute a difference between $5000 per pupil to $11,000 per pupil as simply spinning data) many were shocked by the facts. I do not blame this disparity solely on CMS--they were required to spend certain amounts at high poverty schools and programs and were constantly in danger of being taken to court by various advocacy groups using "data" to suit their purposes. I do blame much of the disparity in funding, or at least the present anger over that disparity, on those who kept their heads in the sand all these years and refused to acknowledge that in many cases it was not lack of resources or even proper instruction that was responsible for the disparity in test scores.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-38753071419794895322011-07-21T09:02:18.024-04:002011-07-21T09:02:18.024-04:00Interesting to read the debate from yesterday. I ...Interesting to read the debate from yesterday. I am not sure what point we are trying to get to with it but here is my conclusion.<br /><br />With the county and CMS demographics so out of similarity, and with a tsunami coming of even more "at risk" children, should not Mecklenburg COunty parents have a viable tax funded alternative education path for their children?<br /><br />I say yes. <br /><br />CMS shows no interest in educating all the children. You can tell it by the $ per pupil distribution. CMS is willing for children to have no desks in a classroom, have no textbooks to use, and have no access for individual help from a teacher, ala newspaper article last year on class sizes over 35 and 50 students and CMS iory tower's lack of interest in even knowing it.therestofthestorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-35611461392970549762011-07-21T08:13:03.533-04:002011-07-21T08:13:03.533-04:00Wiley, I think Pam is correct about the 17 to 18% ...Wiley, I think Pam is correct about the 17 to 18% of children not attending CMS, (and I checked) because the "8.2 percent of population under 5" does refer to 8.2 percent of the overall population, not just those under 18, which means over 75,000 children are under age 5 and which then leaves us with a population of about 164,000 in the under 18 and over age 4 bracket.<br /><br />This little exercise that Pam and Wiley have been engaged in illustrates that mistakes can easily be made when dealing with data. Note that Pam initially made a mistake in her calculations (illustrating that no matter how much of an "expert" one considers themselves mistakes and misstatements are sometimes made)--if not questioned would her figures have become "fact" for her followers? And Wiley, unless you can show us otherwise, you also made a mistake concerning the under 5 number and thus the overall number. Of course, maybe I've made a "mistake" also. Please let me know if I have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-28384608259783746202011-07-20T23:55:28.771-04:002011-07-20T23:55:28.771-04:00Pam,
As far as the mistake in your calculation, ...Pam, <br /><br />As far as the mistake in your calculation, that's why I asked people to check mine.<br /><br />I think I see what you're referring to:<br /><br /><i>This is a quick, loose breakdown of under 18 based on the overall County demographics:<br /><br />White 55.3 132,224<br />Black 30.8 73,644<br />Hisp. 12.2 29,171</i><br /><br />That's why I used the term "loose" in describing the numbers.<br /><br />You are correct that the number of AA kids 18 and under could be more than 73,644, or less. I think it's in the ball park. We do know that 55,350 AA kids go to CMS.<br /><br />Is it reasonable to make the argument that the 18,294 remaining (73,644-55,350) are part of the groups who have dropped out, in the 18 year olds who graduated and the newborn to 4 year olds? <br /><br />The indisputable fact is the County is a little over 55% white yet CMS is just under 33% white.<br /><br />Also, regarding the "unaccounted for" 80,000 to 84,000 students, further research on my part shows there are right at 20,000 home schooled and private school students in the County.<br /><br />The remaining 40,000 either don't go to school, are in the gray area of either 18 and graduated or under 5, even though 3,200 4 year olds are in Bright Beginnings.Wiley Coyotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16966764080565903720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-13607406627714312752011-07-20T23:21:39.185-04:002011-07-20T23:21:39.185-04:0010:35
Actually, as I follow my own advice, I real...10:35<br /><br />Actually, as I follow my own advice, I realize I missed a step. In fact the figures show that about 83 percent of eligible kids attend CMS, so that means that about 17 percent don't (I had them turned around and spaced on the decimal place). That's why it always helps to show your work (and be questioned by others!).<br /><br />Wiley, just because the overall population is 31 percent black doesn't mean that the population under 18 is 31 percent black. There are a lot of factors that can skew different age groups in different directions.Pamela Grundynoreply@blogger.com