tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post6579043827481187577..comments2023-10-23T09:23:22.051-04:00Comments on Your Schools: Testing boycott and teacher ratingsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-63281519555205247582014-02-23T15:45:22.223-05:002014-02-23T15:45:22.223-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-66309551600882446732014-02-23T07:40:21.579-05:002014-02-23T07:40:21.579-05:00Asians also have incredibly high suicide rates. S...Asians also have incredibly high suicide rates. South Korea, Japan, and China (although China fudges their numbers - big surprise!) are always in the top ten every years.<br /><br />Seems like a culture historically known for balance (ying/yang) doesn't practice what it preaches. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-48039274307081685442014-02-22T18:22:00.592-05:002014-02-22T18:22:00.592-05:00Anon 9:45am.
Another fallacy to look for often oc...Anon 9:45am.<br /><br />Another fallacy to look for often occurs in what I call the "poverty excuse".<br /><br />In that, someone typically says that the rest of the world somehow doesn't have to consider "poverty" like the US does in its test scores.<br /><br />And then they'll show how "our" people perform just as well as other countries when we control our population for poverty.<br /><br />All while NOT controlling the other country for poverty, but including their entire population as if THEIR poverty did not matter.<br /><br />So it's our rich against their rich AND poor, and suddenly we look OK because WE have adjusted OUR SCORES (and OUR scores only) for "poverty".<br /><br />So, they'll compare a 580 from our richest schools to a 620 from Finland and say "See, we're not so bad after all". We would actually be third or fourth.<br /><br />And they conveniently exclude Asian countries from the comparison (except maybe Japan or Korea, but never Shanghai, Hong Kong, Macau, or even Vietnam).<br /><br />I've seen this SO MANY times that it is amazing to me people get away with it.<br /><br />But they do. Including Diane Ravitch.<br /><br />Throwing out disconfirming evidence is one way to "prove" your point. <br /><br />Provided everyone already agrees with it and you ARE NOT interested in the truth.<br /><br />That and assuming that "poverty" in the US is the same as "poverty" in a place like Vietnam is just plain wrong.<br /><br />Vietnam claims to have less "poverty" than the US.<br /><br />But THAT is by VIETNAMESE standards.<br /><br />We don't even HAVE the kind of poverty that VIETNAM calls poverty.<br /><br />That's why the US doesn't even APPEAR in most lists of "world poverty".<br /><br />We're WAY above that $1-$2 a day that applies to so much of the rest of the world.<br /><br />All "poverty" is NOT equal. Our people in "poverty" live much better than people in "poverty" in Vietnam.<br /><br />Rich countries like the US have a much more generous definition of poverty.<br /><br />Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-35067844496918465692014-02-22T11:07:29.488-05:002014-02-22T11:07:29.488-05:00Yes. The statistical paradox they uncovered is a ...Yes. The statistical paradox they uncovered is a version of Simpson's paradox. <br /><br />And it is a valid criticism of "A Nation At Risk" for missing that.<br /><br />BUT touting our INTERNAL "progress" (of ourselves measured against ourselves over time) doesn't give the whole picture of education in the US.<br /><br />So our internal tests improving don't mean much.<br /><br />It's like saying the Jamaican Bobsled team gets better each Olympics or that each year Chrysler builds better cars.<br /><br />Meanwhile, the rest of the world is DOING MUCH BETTER.<br /><br />The real competition is OUTSIDE the US. And that is still where we are mediocre.Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-73848807699621582872014-02-22T09:49:53.976-05:002014-02-22T09:49:53.976-05:00Everyone needs to read this, especially folks like...Everyone needs to read this, especially folks like Wiley. <br /><br />http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/education-uprising/the-myth-behind-public-school-failure<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-45654562483943337332014-02-22T09:39:09.914-05:002014-02-22T09:39:09.914-05:00Holy moly, Wiley! I read your comment about the FC...Holy moly, Wiley! I read your comment about the FCC newsroom infiltrators while I was at the school board retreat and thought "What is he talking about? That sounds crazy." Then I forgot about it until I read this morning's editorial and realized it WAS crazy, but true. Fortunately, this plan has also been spiked.<br /><br />http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/21/4714986/intrusive-fcc-idea-gets-the-ax.html#.Uwi19RZQbvgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-40909682576092092962014-02-21T22:07:04.090-05:002014-02-21T22:07:04.090-05:00Best I can tell, his teacher teaches at grade leve...Best I can tell, his teacher teaches at grade level, not below.<br /><br />But I tend to teach him what makes sense at the time.<br /><br />For example, we went over Pythagorean's theorem when discussing areas of squares and triangles.<br /><br />(I know I'm a bad boy).<br /><br />I don't expect his 3rd grade teacher to do this.<br /><br />But I'll check into that Descartes stuff.<br /><br />(It sounds so mathematical...)Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-15448956579847052162014-02-21T21:36:48.673-05:002014-02-21T21:36:48.673-05:00It's unfortunate that people confuse poverty w...It's unfortunate that people confuse poverty with character and accepting responsibility. I have had students who did not have basic needs, but they came from backgrounds where good character, manners, and doing the right thing were valued, and they didn't let poverty get in their way or use it as an excuse for not getting an education. <br /><br />Shamash, if your child's teacher is teaching two years below grade level to all the students in the class while some are testing above grade level, he/she is not using their data properly. Part of the purpose of MAPS testing is to identify what skills students have mastered and what they have not mastered. Ask the teacher where your child falls in the Descartes and how he/she is differentiating instruction to meet the needs of ALL students in the class. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-88526220211732433042014-02-21T20:40:41.051-05:002014-02-21T20:40:41.051-05:00What would be great if we heard a lot of stories a...What would be great if we heard a lot of stories about parents who do it right and are more vested, so those who are not could be inspired? <br /><br />And how Teachers may need more money, but with the community stepping up offering low cost auto repairs, day care, elder care and things of that nature.<br /><br />Or Parents who could have Teachers and their families over at least once a year for dinner to talk about how things are going.<br /><br />Churches in communities pledging to provide bus service and lunches to children who wish to attend schools outside the neighborhood in which they live. <br /><br />Imagine those stories in the paper showing us ways to make things better. <br />Ettolrahchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06291283028895857071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-47913930208348741902014-02-21T18:32:06.059-05:002014-02-21T18:32:06.059-05:00I am a volunteer at CMS and have had Asian parents...I am a volunteer at CMS and have had Asian parents come up to me in stores because their children mentioned to them that I helped them in class.<br /><br />They will thank me, and tell what their child is doing today, with such pride.<br /><br />I am glad to see folks who have such a vested interest in their children.<br /><br />In fact it is normally Asian Parents who often come to the school to make sure their children are keep up with their studies.<br /><br />And often those Asian Children are blowing the top end off the Bell Curve in class. <br /> <br />Ettolrahchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06291283028895857071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-43203196663382301562014-02-21T17:58:43.528-05:002014-02-21T17:58:43.528-05:00Etollrahc,
Well, I know that's been brought u...Etollrahc,<br /><br />Well, I know that's been brought up in these blog comments before.<br /><br />I think Wiley was among the first to mention it (or a similar high number).<br /><br />Things like that DO bother me, but I suspect that US standards are low all around, not just CMS.<br /><br />I just saw what a Kindergartener from China was studying (just a few weeks ago) as "homework" while she was on her New Years break.<br /><br />(Yes, they even study on break.)<br /><br />Yikes!<br /><br />Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-30833386370325507092014-02-21T17:51:54.127-05:002014-02-21T17:51:54.127-05:00I will bet you will do a superior job if they atte...I will bet you will do a superior job if they attend CMS.<br /><br />Most folks are not aware that of the close to 1100 CMS graduates which applied to CPCC, over 95 percent of them had to have remedial courses.<br /><br />Now why is that not something that is reported? Ettolrahchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06291283028895857071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-82241614796432662712014-02-21T17:43:33.842-05:002014-02-21T17:43:33.842-05:00Etollrahc,
I'm getting worried that I MAY nee...Etollrahc,<br /><br />I'm getting worried that I MAY need to teach my kids HS Biology, Chemistry and Physics in addition to Calculus.<br /><br />So I'm honing up on my "research" skills in the physical sciences as well.<br /><br />(Remember, though, that I'm still flying blind without an Education degree...)Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-55396972287253102332014-02-21T17:38:01.694-05:002014-02-21T17:38:01.694-05:00I will bet you are the only person who did any res...I will bet you are the only person who did any research.<br /><br /><br />The same with the claims made by the folks on here. <br /><br />No one is in the business of verification anymore.<br /><br />Even those who we assume are doing it for us. <br /><br />Thanks for helping out my little exercise. Ettolrahchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06291283028895857071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-46111611094173330932014-02-21T17:28:25.563-05:002014-02-21T17:28:25.563-05:00Etollrahc,
I'm not sure if education was bett...Etollrahc,<br /><br />I'm not sure if education was better long ago.<br /><br />But, we DO make better glass than they did in those historic houses.<br /><br />At least the glass thickness is more consistent.<br /><br />Despite rumors to the contrary, glass is NOT a liquid and those ripples don't occur due to gravity as many think.<br /><br />And probably as we were taught in school just a few decades ago.<br /><br />(Or at least as I remember being taught by some of the teachers I had...)<br /><br />http://io9.com/the-glass-is-a-liquid-myth-has-finally-been-destroyed-496190894<br /><br />http://chemistry.about.com/od/matter/a/Is-Glass-A-Liquid-Or-A-Solid.htm<br /><br />Like Lady Gaga, they were made that way..Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-46020226038544168802014-02-21T17:16:57.929-05:002014-02-21T17:16:57.929-05:00Anon 3:11pm.
I looked for poverty and education t...Anon 3:11pm.<br /><br />I looked for poverty and education topics by Bobo and didn't find much, but...<br /><br />I found this discussion with Lawrence D. Bobo:<br /><br />http://mvgazette.com/news/2011/08/22/poverty-and-failure-education-system-weigh-black-students?k=vg5307c9021922f&r=1<br /><br />Well, can't say I'm particularly swayed by this argument, either.<br /><br />Because it's not just the "poor" blacks who are underperforming.<br /><br />If you look at black education gaps, you will find that even middle-class blacks (who have presumably avoided poverty) STILL score LOWER (on NAEP tests) than lower income whites.<br /><br />So, while crushing poverty may be crushing those blacks actually IN poverty, it doesn't explain why blacks in the middle class aren't doing better, either.<br /><br />So something else is at work, too.<br /><br />But I guess that's where "racism" kicks in and the professional race-baiters take over from the professional poverty-pimps.<br /><br />All I can say, is:<br /><br />NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT.<br /><br />---------------<br /><br />And I've already posted information disproving Diane Ravitch's claim about "higher poverty" in the US. <br /><br />Note that Ravitch only talks about Japan, Korea, and Finland, and excludes the HIGHER poverty countries like Vietnam, Singapore, and various other Asian countries as examples.<br /><br />How convenient for her to cherry pick a few countries like that instead of looking at the whole OECD group (especially countries with MUCH LARGER percentages of poor than the US) to see how they do.<br /><br />And, they do just fine compared to the US. <br /><br />No need to find the poor in Japan or Finland when there are so many more in Vietnam, Hong Kong, Macau, Estonia, etc., etc. <br /><br />So that makes HER argument BS.<br /><br />And she even gets Finland, Japan, and Korea WRONG according to the OECD data.<br /><br />SO DOUBLE BS TO HER.<br /><br />--------<br /><br />Maybe you have a better example of Bobo's views. This was all I found on the subject so far.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-50065038442008006902014-02-21T17:14:45.096-05:002014-02-21T17:14:45.096-05:00Someone said that education was better today than ...Someone said that education was better today than it was a while back.<br /><br />I love how folks go to an historic house and look out the windows being distorted thinking we make glass better today than they did back then.<br /><br />Sad how some folks have the illusion of knowledge. Ettolrahchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06291283028895857071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-88537675318796689302014-02-21T15:49:09.846-05:002014-02-21T15:49:09.846-05:00Anon 3:11pm.
I'll check out DeBobo to see wha...Anon 3:11pm.<br /><br />I'll check out DeBobo to see what he says.<br /><br />Again, since I grew up somewhat poor, I think I know the terrain a little.<br /><br />Sure, not REAL poor like someone in Somalia or Nepal or living in a dump in the Philippines, but definitely near the bottom of the FRL crowd by US standards (probably an "F" rather than an "R").<br /><br />Poor enough that I used to think the nearby "projects" looked like pretty nice housing.<br /><br />And what I saw in school was more of an issue with students and parents than teachers. Even though I had a few not-so-great teachers, they were still able to teach the students who wanted to learn. Especially in elementary school.<br /><br /><br />I don't think teachers can save all the kids, either. Especially if they and their parents don't try or care.<br /><br />Teaching a year in China (along with other experiences) also influenced my views on education and poverty .<br /><br />I think our reaction to poverty is largely cultural.<br /><br />The fact that our "poor" don't do well has as much to do with their attitudes as it does their actual poverty.<br /><br />I find this idea hard to shake when I look at how the rest of the world views education when faced with poverty.<br /><br />Some of my smartest students were kids whose parents rode them to school on rickety old bicycles.<br /><br />And not only the ones who pulled up in BMW's.<br /><br />The Politically Correct crowd get themselves all wrapped up in things like "invisible white privilege", but they ignore the equally powerful "invisible US privilege".<br /><br />Just being here offers advantages most of the world can only dream of.<br /><br />And yet, so many people here squander THAT privilege.<br />Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-19974106586153891092014-02-21T15:29:08.174-05:002014-02-21T15:29:08.174-05:00Well, since my kids are in elementary school, they...Well, since my kids are in elementary school, they aren't worried about AP exams just yet.<br /><br />And since so much of the testing is focused on third grade reading, I feel pretty safe in saying my kids are doing just fine.<br /><br />I know the pros and cons of testing and what they can and cannot measure and take it all with a grain of salt.<br /><br />But, tests are here to stay from what I can tell, so we might as well get used to them.<br /><br />My reference point is MAP testing and what I've seen of the international curriculum (at their level) in places like China, Singapore, and Hong Kong.<br /><br />Grades in the US don't mean squat to me. But I make sure my kid still gets good grades anyway.<br /><br />Because I know he can.<br /><br />I use Singapore Math books to teach my son math and he is ahead by that curriculum as well.<br /><br />My 4-yo can already read simple books and my 3rd grader is scoring about 5th-6th grade on MAP tests.<br /><br />Of course high school (and perhaps some middle school) is another matter. <br /><br />And that is where I'd like to see more money, effort, and higher skilled teachers WITH DEGREES IN THE SUBECTS THEY TEACH doing the teaching. <br /><br />A lot of things can be learned by first learning to read well and then reading (History, English, Social Studies, etc., etc.)<br /><br />And while I probably CAN teach my kids math through Calculus, I do not have a fully equipped lab in my home for Biology or Chemistry.<br /><br />That is when we will become more dependent on schools.<br /><br />But, by then, who knows where we will be and what schools they will attend.<br /><br />We have friends who have moved to Singapore, for example. And we could be over there as well for all we know.<br /><br />Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-4552519308892781252014-02-21T15:11:38.919-05:002014-02-21T15:11:38.919-05:00Shamash,
While I don't always agree with you,...Shamash,<br /> While I don't always agree with you, I do enjoy reading your thoughts on the topic of education. One of the views where we differ is the impact of poverty. I began to look at poverty in a different way with regards to education especially after listening to Dr. lawrence D. Bobo. He describes poverty in terms that I had not previously understood. I tend to agree with him to a degree, he feels that to expect a teacher, by themselves, to be able to overcome the effects of poverty on a child is absurd. I also agree with you in that it is not poverty itself that is the issue, but the culture of some of those in poverty. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-21890176516437567332014-02-21T14:18:54.478-05:002014-02-21T14:18:54.478-05:00"...I know my kids are doing fine..." C..."...I know my kids are doing fine..." Compared to to what? Compared to Wake? Compared to NYC Schools? There is no reference point for the measure. I envy you if you are current on Calculus, physics, chemistry, and biology to know your children are doing fine before the AP exam. And this is where we were in the '80's. Students were getting these awesome grades, accepted into challenging college programs, and all of a sudden failing. Come to find out that education wasn't so great after all. Or going into AP exams and coming out with 1 and 2's, yet have A's in the class for both semesters.<br /><br />Since we Wayne's World time machined back to the '80's. The Breakfast Club archetypes still exist as they did back then. Little has changed.<br /><br />People are not afraid of the test, but the results of the testing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-52825645814315980452014-02-21T13:57:51.192-05:002014-02-21T13:57:51.192-05:00Ummm, if anyone thinks teachers or teaching has go...Ummm, if anyone thinks teachers or teaching has gotten worse over the years, that would be a very naive thought. In addition, it is my opinion that there are segments of children who are smarter than those of yesteryear. Kids are taking higher math at younger ages. There are more AP and honors courses now than there were twenty years ago. Teachers haven't changed. Cultures have changed. Values have changed. Society has changed. Until the VAM (Value-Added Model) can realistically quantify qualitative metrics with reasonable validity, it should be taken with a grain of salt and have little relevance in statistical measurement of evaluations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-70372170205196516402014-02-21T13:53:29.811-05:002014-02-21T13:53:29.811-05:00"So basically, no one is happy about testing ..."So basically, no one is happy about testing because no one is willing to do anything about the results."<br /><br />Not true. I'm willing to do something about the results.<br /><br />And I do.<br /><br />So my kids score well above the required scores.<br /><br />What I'm NOT interested in is having my kid sit through dumbed-down, boring classes and wasted time on more tests just because OTHER parents don't do their jobs.<br /><br />Every other parent should help educate their kids as well.<br /><br />But they don't.<br /><br />So we have all this measuring crap to see if we can "solve" the "gap" problems.<br /><br />If Johnny can't pass tests, it's ultimately the parent's responsibility to address the problem.<br /><br />The other alternative to ensure "success" is for the state to raise the child.<br /><br />Nothing less will be effective for many of these kids, given the lack of involvement from their parents combined with their lack of motivation.<br /><br />Teachers and schools cannot fix everything wrong in their lives.<br /><br />So, either we start farming kids out to state-run "homes" (where their "progress" can be measured like cattle) or accept that until parents take the education bull by the horns it isn't likely to improve.<br /><br />I don't like excessive testing because I KNOW my kids are doing fine based on just a few tests.Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-50150733956079166382014-02-21T13:23:49.751-05:002014-02-21T13:23:49.751-05:00Ann, I appreciate your investigative work, balanci...Ann, I appreciate your investigative work, balancing viewpoints, and anonymous posting.<br /><br />Johnny < insert excuse > as to why he did poorly on the exam.<br /><br />Where excuse may be one of:<br />- Had to make the winning goal in that game<br />- Had to broker a deal for world peace in the middle east<br />- Does not do well on multiple choice tests<br />- Cannot take a test that lasts longer than 30 minutes<br />- Teacher did not agree with CMS on prerequisites, thus is allowing students who did not take the teachers prerequisites are allowed to fall behind.<br />- Teacher was missing for 3 weeks and substitute did not teach.<br />- Was sick for 2 weeks<br />- Had to attend 2 weeks of out of state tournaments for their teams<br /><br />Teachers cannot be rated on a student because < insert excuse >:<br /><br />Where excuse is one of:<br />- Can't control students behavior<br />- Can't control students attendance<br />- Can't control students home life<br /><br />So basically, no one is happy about testing because no one is willing to do anything about the results.<br /><br />Like the last release of data this can be useful, but with a healthy dose of assumptions. And ensuring everyone understands the assumptions is an uphill task. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4020455191286536580.post-19086005416830764082014-02-21T12:49:01.285-05:002014-02-21T12:49:01.285-05:00So, in a nutshell...
The big problem I have with ...So, in a nutshell...<br /><br />The big problem I have with this teacher rating thing is that it does NOT account for parental involvement and influence on a student's academic "growth" in either direction.<br /><br />It's as if the schoolhouse is the be-all and end-all of all education in the world.<br /><br />Which is WHY our whole educational system is in the crapper.<br /><br />(In my less than humble opinion, of course.)<br /><br />The fact that this multivariate "growth" model was originally developed by a guy who analyzed the development of cattle exposes an inherent weakness (or two).<br /><br />http://vamboozled.com/?p=570<br /><br />People are not cows.<br /><br />Education is not body weight.<br /><br />We have things called "cultures" and "parents" which influence a child's academic "growth" as much as their feedstock.<br /><br />And those are not being measured.<br /><br />In fact, they appear to be "assumed out of existence" in the model.<br /><br />I'm not sure I'm buying that.Shamashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06886687970259841873noreply@blogger.com