Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools is building some support for its quest to do a better job of evaluating teachers and helping them develop their skills. But the slew of new tests the district created last spring still seems to pose a barrier to public support for the "talent effectiveness project."
That was my take-away from last night's public conversation on " How Should We Grade Our Teachers," sponsored by WFAE. More than 100 people -- most of them CMS teachers or parents, from the show of hands -- turned out to talk with teachers and the district's human-resources chief.
Panelists Larry Bosc, a teacher from East Meck, and Courtney Mason, a teacher from Piney Grove Elementary, agreed the new state teacher evaluations are better than the old version, providing a broader view of what teachers do for their schools and students. Bosc, however, noted that they impose a huge time demand on the school administrators who have to perform them.
Mason, a fourth-year teacher, voiced enthusiasm for the latest quest to get teachers involved in figuring out how to gauge effectiveness and help teachers improve. Bosc, who has taught 34 years, was more wary. He said he fears talent effectiveness is just a new name for performance pay, and decided not to commit 90 minutes a week through April to volunteer for a study group whose suggestions might be ignored.
Chief HR Officer Daniel Habrat insisted CMS is serious about learning from last year's mistakes and listening to teachers. "We have an opportunity to correct a misstep and start anew," he said.
Panelists and audience members agreed on the need to respect and pay teachers like true professionals -- though many said handing out small rewards based on performance means less than boosting the overall pay scale. Most of the audience comments focused on the dozens of new year-end tests CMS launched last spring as part of its performance-pay push. One mother cried as she talked about how the tests squeeze out time for art and music.
"What I have seen go on last spring and this fall I find totally unacceptable," she said. "I promised my husband if I saw the same thing happen this spring, I would pull (our daughter) and just home-school."
Habrat said as a CMS parent, he was "not a fan" of last spring's testing, either. But he noted that the state is getting ready to develop additional tests, which will also be used to evaluate teacher performance. And he said the full slate of CMS testing will continue this spring, though the tests should be somewhat shorter.
Ultimately, it will be up to the school board and the new superintendent to decide how much testing the district will do beyond what the state requires. Habrat told the group that if the district abandoned its new year-end tests, it would not derail the push to come up with better evaluations and support for teachers.
WFAE plans to post audio of the discussion and take comments on the topic at this site, though it could take a day or two.
Wednesday, November 2, 2011
CMS tests still spark skepticism
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26 comments:
It was mainly a rehash of what we already knew and a session of why and when will CMS and the Teachers start trusting each other so well that they initiate Peer Reviews that are true reviews.
We all know who is pulling the weight in any team and in fact those doing the best job are often the most severe critics and most helpful mentors to those who need the most help.
You can see the tweets from it at #wfaepubcon
But what I really want you to do is to go and vote for NorthWest School of the Arts for the Glee Award.
http://gleegiveanote.com/vote_details.php?id=159
These Kids had a Jazz Band and all kinds of arts on display as well as visual arts for us as we arrived to show they understand how to market their talents as well. This shows somebody is doing it right at NorthWest. Education, Arts and Business all creates a great future.
Thanks for the story Ms. Helms, but has anyone ever thought about how the tests and over-emphasis on teacher accountability, with a curriculum focus on college and antiquated models, might be the root of our problems. Hell will freeze over before administrators listen to teachers. In my experience as a teacher, students who are ready to learn will, and those that don't won't. Our system drags down the gifted and coddles the students not exposed or not choosing to learn. We need a leader to call it like they see it at the State level, period.
I taught 13 years in CMS and after the big "reveal" of testing and pay for performance, I decided to leave. The emphasis on teacher accountability and using multiple choice tests (of all things!) to grade teachers and schools is an incredible disservice to our students. We need to teach students to be accountable, engaged, and expert learners. Not only does this system deflect from those efforts, it prevents teacher innovation by enforcing so-called "Professional Learning Communities" where uniformity is the goal of the day and test data drives all instruction. Think about it - is life more like a series of multiple choice tests OR is it a series of problems that require strategy and decision-making abilities to solve?
My kid has mentioned the battery of tests that were endured last year in college interviews with northeastern schools. The admissions folks were "aghast" and "bewildered" at the number of year-end tests this student had to take in a handful of days. From May 31 to June 4 there were 4 finals (after already completing AP exams for those subjects), 5 summatives, and nationally scheduled Saturday SAT exams. I moved my other child to private school this year to avoid these poorly planned and written assessment(s) - lucky to get the placement in the largest 9th grade class they have ever had...saw crowded open houses with lots of parents from CMS schools that we have known over the years and in various parts of the city. The economy is not great, but parents are willing to sacrifice to get their kids the proper critical thinking and problem solving skills they need to succeed at whatever post-secondary level of education they wish to pursue. CMS needs to get that this testing strategy as currently pursued is detrimental to kids' preparedness. Colleges are watching and questioning the need and process.
The formatives (different from the summatives but still come from "downtown") are still poorly written. They do not tell teachers much about what students have learned. If the summatives at the end of the year are anything like the current formatives (or like last year's summatives) they will again be a horrible joke and a waste of instructional time.
At a meeting I attended where staff from the formative office made a presentation, they were very clear that the people who make formatives and the people who make summatives are in separate offices and do not work together. That makes no sense. The formatives are intended to help teachers know what stduents have learned and what they still need to learn. At the end of the year the summative is intended to show what the student has learned throughout the year. Shuoldn't the formatives kind of lead up to the sumatives? Shouldn't the two offices be combined into one?
It was rather sad to sit there last night and listen to how public education has become "endangered" by the professional educrats, community organizers, politicans and judges. One mom got very emotional about how her child had lost so much instructional time in the classroom due to all these tests. And the CMS HR person was unapologetic to it all. I talked to several elementary school teachers last week and they have been able to "instruct" only 2 weeks of the first 9 weeks of school this year.
Secondly as a taxpayer, I was floored by the lack of concern. Over the last 20 to 30 years, real spending per pupil has gone up 3 times and more in some categories but scores have not moved more than point or two.
Public education leadership is a joke.
Lastly on this topic, while I agree teachers are underpaid, in many ways they have it better than private industry. We too have had no pay raise in 3 to 4 years. We no longer have pensions. We have had to pay for our benefits forever. These are just the facts.
But actually lastly, NWSA has been a gem in this community. It has been very sad to see it come from where it was to where it is now. The class envy crowd must be shut out.
How can the OBserver continue to complain about testing yet endorse 4 candidates who favor testing. Let me corrent that Elyse and Erica never gave a straight answer when asked at 2 different forums.
It is embarrassing that the Observer writers write one thing and the editoral staff write just the opposite.
TROTS...
Those foxes has been guarding the public education henhouse for the past 40 years...
Look at Manning. Legislating pre-K for all from the bench.
Government pouring millions and millions into programs they know are already wasting previous allotments yet do nothing about it.
WC, my point. I started to go talk to "Gabe" (I think his name was) after he made the commetn that public education just neeed more money. I wanted to ask him if it was known you could get no more money, what program would you stop to where you could use that money to get more student achievement. However, it became obvious that "government" workers have no concept of that concern by taxpayers.
Very true TROTS...
Which program(s) would they cut?
I'm willing to bet they couldn't come up with any.
Am I wrong but does this battle come down to some teachers not wanting any close results-oriented monitoring, but wanting more money and benefits. There HAS to be a way to tell whether a child is learning and a teacher is teaching. I don't really hear good teachers acknowledging that they have to get bad teachers out of the system. The 34-year employee said he didn't really want to participate in the solution...a mouthful. Let's really keep status quo is what I heard. The other battle is the battle between kids who don't want to learn and want to change the culture of the school to one that values ignorance over one that values learning. You have to get the ones trying to destroy the learning culture out. Testing, evaluating, monitoring and paying for a level of results is the answer. And, this has to be used to also remove ineffective teachers.
P.S. Never mention to a liberal that there is a finite amount of money and there has to be choices where to spend it. In their mind, there is just an unending fountain of revenue. That's why 40 cents of every $1 the federal government spends is borrowed from China.
Teachers aren't opposed to the testing to measure student growth. But we are not comfortable with it being used to decided your pay and if you keep your job. No because we want the status quo but because of the materials we must work with. We must teach all students that come through our doors, not a problem, but as you said not all want to learn. The system does not remove them so they are still counted as part of the tested group. They drive scores down, you look as if you didn't do your job. Your punished. In the private sector would the middle manager get fired because his/her employee didn't show up and do their work...no. They would remove the employee. Here's a question, would you force a carpenter to use warped cracked boards to build your house?
Evaluate the teacher on the TEACHER'S performance- NOT the student's. The teacher cannot control the variables outside the classroom which affect performance! Common sense please! Stop this " blame the teacher" mentality! teachers are falling behind in salary and benefits and being told to do more in the meantime. And, they never even reached national average in pay before the big take-aways/ How do you expect to attract and retain quality being treated this way?!
Anon 2:02
What metrics should be used to evaluate a teacher's performance?
Can you evaluate a teacher's performance without looking at the students?
2:31 - if you use testing in a way that has been proven not to work, then what are you doing? Setting teachers up for failure? Setting students up to be great test takers but poor critical thinkers??
10:58 a.m., I am not complaining about testing, but reporting that many people are concerned about/opposed to it. What would be embarrassing would be if I were ordered to censor my reporting to fit views of the editorial board. I'm not sure it's accurate to conclude that the editorial board loves testing. Fannie Flono was there last night, too; she'll probably speak for herself in her column.
My favorite remark was Dan Habrat's final statement. Rather than focusing our attention on "how do we grade teachers", we should focus our attention on how do we recruit, retain, and develop high quality teachers.
A number of teachers I've spoken with have said they would like to see a way that does get ineffective teachers out of the classroom. They know that bad teachers affect the perception of teachers in general.
As to how do you assess teachers without using test scores - rely on a strong peer review system. It's proven effective in other places. And it's not the simple scratch each other's back so we all get good ratings either.
You have multiple evaluations by multiple teachers/administrators over the entire year. It can be done and would prove more effective and allow teachers to work with other, which is also shown to create better performing schools.
Jeff
www.votejeffwise.com
STOP the GIMMICKS
Teachers already volunteer at least 40 hours per year at the schools. Pay a professional to be a professional for their time and effort.The professional teacher will be a private tutor at a rate of $50 per hour, or the extended day rate by the state of about $20 per hour.When are we as a city/state going to pay for the quality we are spending millions to try and find.
Hey CMS teachers. You dont need a union.You just have to relocate.Northern Virginia will provided a $20,000 increase in your salary without the inane CMS testing policies.
Recruit and Retain the best.Provide a decent salary and they will come.
First of all, the parent complaining we take too much time for "the test" is way off. My qualified, passionate a&% is in there every day trying to get your kid to learn beyond the test and think critically. Cream rises to the top, and crap sinks to the bottom. Either you can participate and pass these EASY tests without harping on it, or you can freak out because you didn't participate in class and learn. In addition, "getting rid" of ineffective teachers sounds like someone in HR didn't do their job and blow smoke to hide why they were hired to begin with. Honestly, 90% of my colleagus in 10 years are exactly who should be trying to help these students learn how to learn for their lives.
Mr. Wise, if you would like to know the answers to your questions, I can meet you anytime. Please email me at scott.yamanashi@gmail.com. Tying teacher pay with student test scores is an illogical, offensive, and unprofessional way of evaluating teachers. Love to hear from you!
Scott,
I sent you a message earlier today, you've probably seen it already - always interested in thoughts from teachers.
Jeff
Would have been nice to see BB as a separate comparison/report line instead of included in the whole school population.
Boyln, still not sure why you thing FRL is the best federal program. The why you explained it to WC just indicated the simpleness to defraud the system. And yes I know school cafeterias depend heavily on having a high population of FRL to keep close to even. Larry may have had a point where every CMS student should have filled out an application. It is discriminatory not to give every student an application.
And WC has his/her point too that the census data proves there is a greater than 50% fraud rate and past "sample audits" have proven as high as a 62% fraud rate. What is unquestionable is the close set of numbers of DSS certified FRL applications and the census numbers of poverty in this county. And remember, some of those do not go to CMS but have financial assistance for private schools through vouchers.
What is eye opening is to sit in on one of these sessions county employees and community organizations run on how to fill out applications for welfare.
Sorry, got in wrong story.
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