Parents who don't like the later school day that debuted this year will take their case to the Charlotte-Mecklenburg school board tonight.
Families from middle schools with a 9:15 a.m. to 4:15 p.m. schedule have formed a Bell Schedule Committee and surveyed faculty, parents and students at 10 schools. A majority of all groups opposed the later day, saying it interferes with extracurricular activities and homework. They also said students are tired, unproductive and badly behaved after 3 p.m.
The group plans to present a detailed PowerPoint during the board's public comment period. They hope to persuade the board that the ideal school day runs from 8 to 3.
The later schedule was introduced to save money by letting buses make an extra run after picking up or dropping off students from schools with earlier schedules. CMS spokeswoman Tahira Stalberte said Monday evening that interim Superintendent Hugh Hattabaugh is reviewing bell schedules, but she had no details about what he's considering and when he'll bring a plan to the school board. She said she doesn't know if Hattabaugh will announce next year's bell schedule before the magnet application period closes Feb. 13.
Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Battle of the bells continues
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At least these students have a chance to get a good night's sleep, unlike the elementary students (and teachers) who now start school at 7:15.
I support the 9:15am bell. The High schools should be starting at this time as well. CMS has the earliest bell schedule in the country of 7:15am, counter to all medical studies pertaining to the physical and mental health needs of teenagers. Too bad CMS is so behind the times with this one. Change the 7:15am bell schedule, not the 9:15am.
For us personally, it gives us more family time in the evenings and the mornings and we have plenty of time for our extra curricular activities with several kids.
Usually CMS posts bell schedules in early January for the upcoming school year. What happened this year? I find it funny that all these people complain about a 9:15am school bell. Where I'm from, all schools start between 8-9:30am, not this ridiculous 7:15 and 7:30 in the morning.
I've seen studies, from England, where high school students that start their school day at 10:00am, had much improved grades over an earlier start. Primarily due to more sleep.
we moved here last year from CA. I was shocked for several reasons. 1. the early school start times 2. they bussed my kids to a school right around the corner from our house and 3. we didn't have to pay for it!
The only explanation I can come up with about this is that the later school start time must conflict with the morning spin classes and social/exercise times at the Y.
Please tell me that this is a joke! This cannot be about what is right for the kids, because the later start time gives them more time to sleep, and do homework.
The CMS Transportation Department mandated school bell schedules are designed to squeeze more bus runs from each day, so CMS can continue to provide FREE bus service to the magnet school students who are receiving a FREE private school quality education at Mecklenburg County tax payer's expense.
The problem with 9:15 start for younger children is that the parents usually have to be at work at 8:00 and the kids don't get home until after 5:00pm. If your kids does sports etc after school then you are looking at a 9:00pm dinner homework etc.
My daughter attends a 9:15AM start time middle school, participates in after school activities and has ample time to complete her homework and get a good night's rest.
Although, it works for her and for us, I realize that every family's situation is different.
It's all about saving some cash to put into a faulty system of testing.
With a 9:15A start middle schooler and a 7:15A high schooler in the house, I see the effects of both school start time schedules first hand and on a daily basis. Both participate in after school activities, and only the middle schooler gets enough sleep. My high schooler comes home with stories of classmates falling asleep in class every day of the week.
So CMS if its about saving money what have you saved? I am thinking their are no savings as you would be blowing those numbers up if their was any. The bell time is worng and too late for middle school kids. Most parents are already at work so it puts kids in a situation were some dont have care at home ! If you want to save money do away with the $1.26 million you spent on those stupid tests last year !
When we moved here in the 90's we were shocked at the early starting times of the schools, especially when kids were being bussed all over town, either for their assigned schools or magnet schools (thus requiring extremely early pickups). One neighbor was actually putting her child on a bus at 5:15 so he could attend a middle school math magnet--that nonsense lasted for about a month. The morning high school bus came through our neighborhood at 6:10 (times have changed of course, now we're lucky that it doesn't arrive until 6:30). I think Charlotte had been forced to do it that way for so long because of assignment issues that it no longer even occurred to many that starting school so early might not be the best way to do things.
I'm in favor of the 9:15 a.m. bell for high schoolers. They need the sleep, and are old enough to be left unattended while parents head off to work in the morning.
As I looked through the 26 page Power Point, I am struck by the fact that almost all of the "reasons" cited were for convenience of the adults and what the students prefer. OF COURSE they are going to want to get out earlier...but what is truly best for student learning? Is anyone really taking a look at that? It seems that this committee isn't really concerned with what will have the biggest impact on helping their students improve academically. Instead they are focused on what they want and what will be easiest for them.
1. Keep the Bell Schedule
2. Do away with Bussing
3. Quit the WHINING
What 26 page PowerPoint?
I will not even read it, until the usual groups, which are cited by Ann, are allowed to give us full understanding of how they feel about it.
That way it we can understand the real chance it has, in ever seeing the light of day again, other than this amusing story snippet we often see.
This is another excuse for the ballantyne soccer mom elitists to gripe and complain about not getting their way. I hope CMS ignores their little 'committee' and tells them to sit down and shut up.
"I can't interrupt my shopping at Southpark like this!" So, will it be Nordstroms or your child's education. These parents are pathetic. May God have mercy on their souls.
I agree that most of this is about the parents and their schedules.
Since public education is FREE to all, some will be inconvenienced.
Fortunately, there are private school options available if CMS fails to meet your needs.
but but but but we're important you can't talk to us that way
Bell schedule decisions highlight the tension between running schools as a business (focus on cost & efficiency) versus running schools that meet the developmental needs of children and adolescents. What comes first - the budget or the kids? What is the proper balance?
funding drive everything. try running a business that spends more money then it takes in
After reading these posts, I am thankful I live in Union county. Our kids go to high school at 8am, our middle is at 8:45am. The Elem school is at 7:30am. I will admit that when my kids were in elementary school it was very rough in the morning to get them going and motivated. Good luck!
It really does seem like these parents are thinking about what works for their "adult" schedules and not what's best for the students. Who would pick 7:15am for a reasonable start time for any student? And, for some of you, are you aware that there is before and after school care, or neighbors that would be happy to help out?
BOE, please answer the following question:
What is best for the children and their learning?
Everything else is secondary.
I believe the reason for the changes in bell schedule had something to do with adding 45 minutes to the elementary school day and how it changed the afternoon bus routes. I wonder why they run so many buses anyways, most of them are not full. That sounds like a waste of money to me.
It is interesting how this subject gets people going because it does affect their personal lives. I agree with some of these posts, the early morning 7:15 time seems more unreasonable for students than other times. I hope they change that before my kids get to High School, or we move!
It really is tough for a kid to get home so late and then deal with homework and any after school activities, try to spend time with the family before crashing in bed--as it is also tough to get on a bus for a 7:15 or 7:30 bell. 8-8:30am does seem ideal, but I don't see that happening here. I am not sure why people assume this is a Ballantyne issue--I thought most of the late bells were for schools nearer the city center. But could be wrong.
we moved to charlotte from elsewhere. seems like much ado about nothing. free school, free lunches, free busing. what more can u ask for? oh yeah, don't mess with my free time...
My South Charlotte elementary kids start at 7:45am (it was 7:30am last year) and it frustrates me when parents complain about their kids starting at 9am. Of course everyone wants an 8:15-8:30 start time, but everyone can't get what they want.
I believe elementary students learn better in the morning, while high school students benefit from starting later.
It kills me that my suburban counterparts find it necessary to complain about the bell schedule yet ignore the fact that our children get thousands of dollars less per child compared to other schools.
Let's pick our battles a little more wisely.
My child goes to a 9:15 school. I just looked at the powerpoint presentation of everyone's "opinions". My child goes to tutoring and clubs before school, she actually has more access to those things now, not less.
As for school starting at 8am, of course every school in CMS wants that start time.
My child's elementary school's bell time changed to 7:30A a couple years ago. A small group of families tried to fight this change. Too many families said that that earlier time worked just fine, so the time change stuck.
I wonder how many who "liked" the early elementary school start time, because it got the kids out of the house earlier, are now objecting to the later time because it doesn't?
I fully agree with the previous reader that 9:15 bell time gives kids precious sleep time.
Wake up people!! You're just mad the babysitter said they'd get here by 7:00 and now they're late and won't arrive till 9:15.
What do you expect when it's a FREE babysitting service!!!
Public school changes got you down? Just wait till 2014 when Obamacare kicks in and suddenly everyone is entitled to the same healtchcare....
In Korea,all students go to school from 8-noon six days a week, go home to eat lunch, then go to tutoring and music lessons in the afternoon. No buses and no whining involved. Costs a lot less too.
This all has to do with saving money. Ann, How much money did CMS save by changing the middle school bells? I don't see any mention of that in the powerpoint study.
What's interesting to me is how many people have so many negative things to say, yet they obviously didn't read the survey results. Also- if you're one of the parents/families against the bell schedule change, why didn't you complete the survey and oppose the change? Why run your mouth now? Once again we have CMS parents being lazy and not speaking up when solicited for feedback then complaining when others try to produce change. This is not just a Southside issue. 10 of 15 middle schools were surveyed. Some people just complain to complain. Just plain ignorant...and irritating.
The savings are eaten up by the benefit adminstrator's fixation on eliminating the largest pre-tax provider which cost CMS $275000 in additional FICA taxes just to remove them. They could have stayed on pretax deductions at the employee's re quest and saved the tax payer. Administration said no...Kaye McGarry tried to save the tax payer but the Gorman-led BOE refused. So they needed to do the bell schedule to save money...force teachers to babysit longer hours and cost the tax payer more money$$$$$$. Sound like sound money management to you? Not to me either but that is the Executive Leadership of CMS(see a mess) for all of us.
2:20, when the board discussed the budget, staff said the bell-schedule changes (which went beyond just the late middle schools) would save $4 million in county money. Oddly, I'm looking at the budget they actually approved in September and I do not find a similar item listed. There is a reduction of $3.8 million in county money and $2.4 million in state, but the description gives other reasons and does not mention the bell-schedule change. This is clearly something that will bear follow-up when the board considers the next budget. Thanks for making me look back at the budgets!
I am a working mother of 4 children in 3 different CMS schools in the Ballantyne area. Middle school children of WORKING PARENTS do not get to sleep in until 9AM - they need to get up and get ready for the day before their parents leave for work. My 11 year-old 6th grader requests that he be woken up at 6:30AM to finish homework, eat breakfast and spend some time with family before parents head off to work at 8AM. Have you people seen the traffic on 485 and 77 in the morning??? He eats breakfast at 7AM and then has lunch at 10:50AM. By the time he gets home at 5:15PM, he is starving. He had all A's last semester except for one B in final block -- he says it is difficult to concentrate on Honors Math late in the day. My child hates the 9:15AM bell schedule -- and yes, he participated in the survey. His teachers hate the 9:15AM bell schedule and according to the survey for our middle school, 70% are looking to transfer to other schools or out of CMS to have earlier bell schedules. These are real kids and real teachers and real issues. Do not dismiss the findings just because you do not agree. Thank you for supporting CMS students and teachers!!!
There's lots of serious psychological research out there on the sleep issue. A huge percentage of adolescents go through a prolonged period of development when their natural sleep cycle is offset by several hours, making it very difficult for them to go to sleep until late at night, while still needing at least 8 hours of sleep a night. The negative effects on cognitive functioning (being alert, being able to learn and remember, etc.) due to sleep deprivation are also well-documented. Go look at an early morning HS class and see how many kids are sleeping. If you care about classroom learning, the late schedules are a good thing.
I find the opinions being expressed on this blog both entertaining and at times enlightening. But, they are just that, opinions. I fail to see where there is any concrete evidence to support changing the bell schedule to an earlier time. Plus, if CMS were in the least bit inclined to do so, don't you think they already would have moved the HS start times back to satisfy the high school aged student's sleep requirements?
If you don't like these times, put your child in a private school! If you don't want or can't afford to put your child in a private school, move!
CMS doesn't care!! Mecklenburg County doesn't care!!
Could this issue be another example of why smaller community based school systems would be better for students and families (and are better in many parts of the country)? I'm quite sure smaller districts could probably find a compromise solution on bell times that would work for most of its families. For a large system--almost impossible, considering the juggling of buses, the cross county travel for magnets, etc. Also there would not be the nasty swipes at one part of town or another during discussions of the issue.
which schools participated in the studey? We go to Piedmont Middle and did not get it.
"Responses were obtained from 1,244students, 313 faculty members and
1,479 parents from across Charlotte - Mecklenburg Schools."
How many of the 9:15AM start time schools were included in your smaple?
The above numbers seem large, yet aren't when one considers the number of students, faculty and parents at the 9:15AM start time schools.
My sense is that far too many responses may be from just a few of the Ballantyne area schools.
I agree with Anon @1:07-the suburbs should be more focused on the lack of funding. Why does that school mates program still exist? The money and resources should be going the opposite direction! I am only person, but I am talking with my wallet this year-that includes our money raising 24/7 PTA.
Also, why is this committee only concerned with middle school? Seems like a few people with spare time found a hobby. Funny that they then are okay with kids waiting for buses before 7am in the dark.
Ann Doss Helms needs to check her facts and report matters accurately. The people presenting the survey findings to the BoE this evening represent the School Leadership Teams from 10 out of 15 of the CMS middle schools with a 4:15PM schedule. School leadership teams are comprised of faculty, teachers and parent representatives. This is not the PTA/PTO. Ann should know this if she has been on the education beat for a decade. Two of the speakers represent the SLTs at Francis Bradley Middle School and Ridge Road Middle School, located in the Northeast. One of the speakers represents the SLT of Community House Middle School, located in south Charlotte. All three are working mothers and deeply committed to making CMS better for our children and for our teachers. Ann, please do not slant future articles to get a rise out of your readers. That tactic should be below your standards.
Does anyone know which schools the individuals whose names are on the presentation are from? That may answer why this issue, and not many other similar ones facing CMS.
I normally refrain from posting a comment on a blog or story, but as a parent of children in high school (7:15 a.m.) and middle school (9:15 a.m.) that have been negatively impacted by their bell schedules, I feel the need to respond to some of the comments already posted.
For the person asking "What 26 page PowerPoint?" - the link is posted in the blog.
For the person asking "How many of the 9:15AM start time schools were included in your smaple [sic]?" -- per the second point on the third page of the presentation, 10 of the 15. From what I have been able to find out, not all of the schools wanted to participate.
For those saying that it's all about the parents, please note that 1,244 students, 313 faculty members and 1,479 parents responded to the survey, and the responses between the groups were similar.
For the 11:49 a.m. post - I actually went to a meeting on this matter that included a member of the school board to hear the reasons for the request to change the schedule. All of the parents discussed issues affecting their kids, not their own schedules.
For the 11:51 a.m. post - it seems that your "May God have mercy on their souls" comment would be better suited for those that have done bad things or were caught up in something horrifying, not some parents that seem to be concerned for their child's education and well being.
Also, for all of the geographically impaired, I'm new to CMS, but through a quick scan of the CMS website was able to discover "Ballantyne" only has one middle school - Community House (http://www.cms.k12.nc.us/cmsdepartments/StudentPlacement/Documents/County-wide%20Middle%20School%20Map%202011-12.pdf). As such, it's not a "Ballantyne" issue - it's a CMS issue.
I understand that some parents will be against the change being proposed. For those that are, go to the meeting and express your opinion.
Ahhh, 5:12--You've figured it out. Slamming the suburbs has been going on for so long around here that many no longer check facts--just blame whatever on those privileged suburbanites. Look how long it took time for actual facts on disparities in school funding to be published with more than a cursory mention. That gave folks a lot of time to build up anger at the suburbs before they found out the funding truth.
I work at a 9:15 (ELEM.)school and our end time was changed to 4:15 from 3:30 last year. Typically, the kids start shutting down around 2:30. The last hour of school is more monitoring behavior than teaching. I'm constantly telling kids to sit up, sit down, lift their head, stop talking, pay attention, etc.... Then I remember I have 6 & 7 year olds and their day is too long. Bottom line is the teachers have to work an extra hour with no additional pay, and kids are too tired for any real learning to take place. I don't think they will change it though, because they will say K-2 teachers need the extra time to do all the useless 1 on 1 testing that really gives us no information to improve our students instruction!
I would like to thank those SLT members who are presenting to the board tonight, our school was not allowed to participate!!!
I find it interesting some of the comments from "working" parents. Most parents work nowadays I suppose. If your child goes to an early school they are stuck at school, or home alone, for a much longer period of time in the afternoon (unsupervised). Vice versa, if they go to a later starting school, there's less time alone or stuck at school in an afterschool program in the afternoon. Am I missing something??
How many CMS spokespersons are there? What happened to LaTarja? Taxpayer money well spent in that department. How may people does it take to spin a terd in a toilet bowl?
The majority of the comments are from Observer Employees and Public School Support Groups.
They have to be, from the tone of how much they dislike the taxpaying public.
5:12, I don't understand your objection to the main item (you do know I don't write the comments, unless it has my name?). I said the survey covered 10 schools; I did not say how many schools were involved in the committee because I do not know. I'm here now waiting to hear what the parents say.
It's interesting that Ann has done about 30 articles going back into November ranging from testing, superintendent search, school board candidates, school board elections, funding, school board appointee for District 6, etc, etc, covering all aspects of education.
Yet in all those informative blogs, the largest number of comments I could find was 42 and that was related to the superintendent search.
Right now, there are 59 comments on this riveting subject.
Everyone seems to be fixated on the start time. OK, move it to 9:15 and let little Johnny sleep until 8:00 so he can stay up until midnight.
That's if you have a stay at home parent who can drive you to school or you're old enough to get yourself up and drive to school. Chances are if you have to ride a bus, you'll be getting up earlier than 8:00.
The suggested hours of sleep for teens is between 9 and 9 1/2 hours.
So in all this hullabaloo over a two hour shift in start time, do you really believe little Johnny is still going to get 9+ hours of sleep?
I think, as best I can tell, that the main focus of the powerpoint is that 9:15 is too late to start the day. Though it woukd be nice to not start high school at the crack of dawn, I wouod assume many people would think 9:15 would be too late for high school as well. I think a request of 8-8:30 is very sensible for all grades, but would likely never happen here. I have a kid starting at 9:15 and one starting school at 8:30. We do enjoy sleeping later than many families, but I miss having a little more time with my kids. We'll be getting up with the roosters in a couple of years for high school. I often feel like I just schlep them straight from school to after school stuff and almost straight to bed some evenings. Some school activities are in the morning, like clubs, girls on the run, tutoring, but anything like local sports or music lessons have to be after school, so it also affects people who teach or run after school activities. One music teacher told me she lost students who no longer had time to have lessons because it had to be so late.
The CMS Bell Schedule is an operational issue. Not sure this group will get much traction by going to the board. The board has no say in school bell schedules.
15 middle schools with the late start at about 1000 students per school is 15,000 students total, give or take. That means 30,000 parents.
Being realistic let's say 20,000 parents and 12,000 students are involved in these schools.
1244 students answered the survey, that's 10%. 1479 parents answered the survey, less than 10%.
This survey would fail any scientific rigor because there was no control group, nor was it randomly assigned. The people participating were more than likely already biased against the start time.
So is it fair for 10% of the population to dictate policy to the rest of the district?
CMS has always staggered start times ranging from 7-9 a.m. because of busing. The current issue is the 45 minutes added to the instructional day, not the start times!! Let's get some clarity on what we need to be speaking against.
Looking through the presentation PDF it's clear the survey was structured to get the types of results this parents group wants.
Also there's no information about the demographics of those who responded to the survey? Percentage of students who were white? Black? Hispanic? Percentage of parents?
Median income of those responding? How many poor or low income parents answered the survey? What about families without ready access to computers?
How many people answered the survey multiple times on different computers?
This is a very small population of CMS parents squeaking loudly trying to bully the new board.
It's now clear that the sample size was quite small, and that the data was cloudy at best in support of this group's demands.
What is clear is that a few familes don't like the late end time.
The BOE should recognize that solving this group's problem will create problems for other families whose views weren't represented in this study!
People who want to change the bell schedule back to the way it was should pay close attention to what Hattabaugh is saying: sacrifices will have to be made, especially in terms of busing. Busing is a major way for students in CMS to get access to programs that benefit them (eg, TD schools, Montessori programs) and the district (by providing a diverse set of quality education opportunities within the public schools). If access to those programs is decreased because of concerns about the later bell schedule for some schools, that's not necessarily a good trade. My daughter goes to a magnet middle school with a 9.15 start time, and she's got a lot of activities in school, and doesn't really need outside of school extracurriculars to stay engaged and interested. She's home by 5, we have dinner, she does homework, and then has downtime. It works for us, and also allows myself and my husband to put in a full working day without having to deal with aftercare, etc.
Who responded to the survey? Who did not? How do we know that survey was representative, because it was pretty self-selected, that group of people who responded. What about those for whom the later schedules are working pretty well? It's never going to be perfect--we should strive for the best situation for the most kids, not for the most vocal parents.
Obviously, none of you have children at these late start schools. My child gets home at 5:30. It is currently dark when she gets off of the bus. The buses at these later schools tend to be later arriving for the afternoon shifts because these are the last runs of the day, it also means that the buses are in the 5:00 traffic so these kids end up with a longer bus ride and a late bell schedule. For the working parents like myself, the mornings are a nightmare. Imagine relying on 11 year old to get up, dressed, eat, get lunch and make the bus everyday because most working parents have to be at work by 8:00am.
I would also question the CMS claims of savings, as I know that the teachers are using substitutes far more frequently as they have longer days too.
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