Saturday, April 20, 2013

School salaries: Why name names?

The annual posting of public salaries has become almost routine after six years,  but every time there are questions about why the Observer does it.

Salaries paid with tax dollars are public record under North Carolina law.  The Observer started requesting and publishing salaries from Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools,  the city of Charlotte and Mecklenburg County to get a handle on how public money is spent.

If you follow the spring budget discussions,  you know numbers can be slippery.  Jobs cut from one category can quietly pop up somewhere else.  Leaders always talk about reducing bureaucracy and cutting costs,  but sometimes a look at who's making what and how it changes over the years tells a different story.

I've used payroll data to analyze staffing cuts and increases,  gauge principal and teacher turnover and look at how CMS compares with other government bodies on executive salaries. Few argue with that kind of reporting.  But some wonder why we make the salaries of rank-and-file government workers available to anyone with a computer and curiosity.

For one thing,  public scrutiny increases the chance that questionable hiring arrangements will be revealed  (think former First Lady Mary Easley's lucrative job at N.C. State University).  It also allows people to do a reality check when false rumors circulate  (for instance,  the persistent buzz that former Superintendent Peter Gorman was giving his wife a CMS paycheck,  when she held a high-profile volunteer post with the district's Parent University).

The Observer isn't out to embarrass anyone,  or to argue that any group of public employees deserves a raise or a cut.  We do want to help readers make informed decisions about how their money is spent.  Time after time,  I've seen people who yawn at an abstract discussion of educator pay get intensely engaged when they realize how it affects individuals they know.

A low salary in public education reflects a fiscal and policy decision,  not an individual shortcoming.  Pay scales are based on credentials and experience,  not performance ratings.  While a bonus represents a judgment  --  or hope  --  that the recipient has done valuable work,  the absence of a bonus means nothing.  Bonuses come from a hodgepodge of incentive programs,  most of them temporary and targeting a limited number of schools. Many excellent educators aren't eligible.

The Observer's data center now includes salaries not only from CMS,  Charlotte and Mecklenburg,  but for state government,  the university system and counties surrounding Charlotte. Those lists get tens of thousands of views.  There's no way of knowing who's doing research and who's just being nosy,  but that's the nature of public information. And it's the nature of journalists to trust that shining a light on public business is ultimately a good thing.

60 comments:

Anonymous said...

No teacher should be earning less than $50,000 a year ! How in the world do they survive ?

Anonymous said...

CYA time.

Wiley Coyote said...

Anon 7:31

$50,000 "per year" in a teaching year is 200 days.

Most people work 260 days per year to make that same $50,000 or whatever salary a teacher makes.

200 days at $50,000 is $250.00 per day. At 260 days, that salary becomes $65,000.

rthompson said...

Teachers with Bachelor's Degrees only hit 50,000 when they have taught for 32 years. Teachers with a Master's Degree hit 50,000 at 25 years. Nice try...

rthompson said...

in North Carolina that is...

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Anonymous said...

Taxpaying underpaid teachers have a choice to be paid on a 10 month or 12 month scale but state insurance is covered on a 12 month basis regardless. Most "good" teachers work 12 hour days excluding extra curriculars that can be 18 hour days and up again at 5AM 5 days a week unlike worthless loafers who consume and waste good oxygen.

Gov McCrory needs to seriously examine the so called "disability" moocher fraud in NC to save millions. Disability fraud is rampant in NC and America as the new unemployment compensation once their benefits run out.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardfinger/2013/01/14/fraud-and-disability-equal-a-multibillion-dollar-balck-hole-for-taxpayers/

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/02/the-fraud-in-our-entitlement-s

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

You people at the observer are slime. Just because you can publish something doesn't mean you SHOULD publish it.

Only after you publish a list of Observer salaries should you publish teacher salaries.

Anonymous said...

I am an elementary school teacher. I work ten to 12 hours on weekdays and eight to ten hours on the weekends. I have to turn in my lesson plans the week before I teach them plus grading papers to post grades and give feedback to my students.

By the time I return from taking my class to the cafeteria, I have about 20 minutes to eat lunch, check my email, and prepare for the next lesson; not an hour like some working in a private-sector job.

During the eight weeks school is out in the summer, I take classes, attend worshops, and work at home planning units that I will use to teach in the upcoming year.

Most people who work 260 days per year to make the same $50,000 get an hour each day for lunch and don't have to take work home with them. Yes, I know you used to be married to a teacher, but the demands of the job have increased even more since then with the change to Common Core State Standards and Pay for Performance, so please don't discount our value by comparing us to "Most people" when the nature of our jobs are very different.

I'm not saying we are better than anyone else. I'm just saying you are comparing apples to oranges, so if you are going to do the math, make sure you calculate all the extra days those 12 hour days translate to.

Anonymous said...

I'm a former high school English teacher and after four years, I left. Why? Because I spent every evening and weekend grading papers, making $30,000 a year while my friends worked regular 9-5 jobs and made $40,000-$50,000. Because I spent hundreds of dollars of my puny salary to buy supplies for my classroom. And my summers off? I spent lifeguarding at a pool where I made $9/hour. I left for the private sector where I could have reasonable hours and make three times as much money. Almost all of my teacher friends did the same. Until teacher salaries change, school districts will continue to bleed teachers and the only ones who stay are the ones who do it for charity, who have a spouse to supplement their crappy income or who the private sector would never hire.

Anonymous said...

To the elementary teacher - I'm sorry to hear that you spend so much time teaching, grading papers etc. But, this is what you were hired to do. you sound as though you don't like your job very much. You should find a new one. I imagine that your bitterness carries over to the classroom. I'm glad your not my child's teacher.
The private sector is always hiring. Maybe you should consider a career change.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the elementary school teacher you are responding to doesn't like the job. He or she is just trying to answer no-nothings like you who have no idea how much work is involved in teaching--not just the supposed "200 days" referenced elsewhere--but on weekends and during the summer at workshops and certification renewal activities.

Personally, a teacher like this one sounds great for any grandkids exactly because this person is not afraid of hard work. But your attitudes and ignorance disqualify you from being taken seriously in a discussion of education.

Anonymous said...

Why not name names. As a teacher I never thought I would make millions and to be honest I make an honest living. Would more money be nice...sure.... But what blows my mind is that I work in a high school in which our administrative staff makes over 540,000.00 .... It literally blows my mind that a staff of 5 people pull that much money and they literally do nothing but paper work and tell the restof the staff how they can not be as visible and helpful because they have too much compliance stuff to do. Really.... Seriously a half a million dollars to do literally nothing but compliance. I say cut out all admin staff over 75,000 for one year and see if schools still function at the same level.. If AND WHEN THEY DO cap all salaries outside of classroom teachers to 75,000. What irks me is that those in administrative positions aspired those positions to male money and climb the career ladder, yet the reality is that real educators do not aspire to climb any ladders..... Funny... This stuff is funny.

Keith Wilson said...

Obviously you can continue to post salaries because it is a matter of public record, but you are only contributing to the ultimate loss of good teachers who are tired of being vilified by a public who doesn't really understand what a teacher in a public school system contributes to a society that really doesn't even care...

Anonymous said...

@ 8:07
I love my job and my students. I worked in the private sector for over 15 years before becoming an educator, so I know first-hand the differences in working conditions and salary.

I am actually the kind of teacher you WANT for your children because I take the time to treat them as individuals, let them know that I care about their success, and work hard to create interesting, relevant, rigorous lessons that make them think. Instead of teaching them to memorize information to pass a test, I teach them skills that they can use throughout their lives.

I attend my students' sporting events and musical performances.
I take the time to communicate with parents through emails or phone calls after school. I analyze data to craft lessons that reach each child, not just teaching a cookie-cutter lesson that will benefit only a few. I am constantly researching the content that I teach so that I can be a better teacher.

Yes all these things I do are choices. I just don't understand why it is that when teachers simply state the facts about what they do, they are considered "bitter" and told to go to change jobs.

Wiley Coyote said...

6:55, 10:08....

Tell me what percentage of teachers do what you stated you do...

Anonymous said...

I'd be happy to if I had time to research it. :-)

Seriously, I know that not all teachers do, but I'm not going to assume that I am the exception rather than the rule. I also believe that the time I spend now is not only an investment in my students' futures, it's an investment in mine too.

Anonymous said...

The majority of teachers perform these tasks and more...the majority !

Reality Check said...

Wiley Coyote (10:40pm):

Your ignorant comments indicate why we have a shortage of qualified individuals that become public school teachers in this country. I, myself, am a former public school employee who left for the "typical" 2-3 reasons that most public school teachers leave the profession. 1) I was making one-third to one-half the salary of people who held similar degrees in other fields (e.g. - a Master's degree in a technology field). 2) I was constantly bombarded with accusations from students and parents for holding the bar high, and maintaining standards that led to the possibility that students with sub-par motivation levels might fail courses. 3) I had to put up with snot-nosed adults like you, claiming that a 10-month contract with the public schools was not worth paying someone a reasonable salary. People like you demean the field of public education, and give incentive to the most qualified educational professionals to turn their backs on the public education sector. I can tell you that I am no more or less happy to be teaching at the college level now, but I am making 40-50% higher salary with 30-40% fewer "headaches." I miss helping the "minds of tomorrow," but I am not treated as a drain on the economy as some individuals such as yourself make public school teachers out to be.

You should be ashamed at the way you cast a blanket statement over all public school teachers. Yes, more than half of all elementary, middle, and high-school teachers are willing to put in the number of hours it takes to educate the future of America. Opinions such as yours serve to alienate the best people from helping to serve the needs of our children. Maybe if you valued the efforts of those good people with a little respect, it wouldn't be a crisis. Most public school teachers I know (or have known), would have stayed in the profession for simple respect and/or appreciation. Most do not leave because of the money. Most do not leave because of the salary. Most leave because of the disrespect cast by self-important people such as yourself, stabbing your finger into the chests of such caring individuals. Calling them greedy for wanting more than $35,000 for 220 days of work with the most important job in the world.

I was disgusted when I searched a former supervisor of mine in Union County after Ann Doss Helms posted the article this week. I was disgusted because I realized how much more money I make in the collegiate environment than the best administrator I have ever worked with in the public schools. At the same time I understand her reasons for publishing a link to that information, and I condemn the act for putting the salaries and personal information of so many employees on display. But most of all, I am disgusted to realize that the efforts of public school employees are taken for granted. And then criticized.

You, Wiley Coyote, are certainly part of the problem, and you have never considered being part of the solution...

Anonymous said...

For the same reason that the public is allowed to see toxicology reports from accidents. In this social media craze that we are going through everyone seems to want to know what the other person is doing. It's an absolute embarrassment to this country that these sort of things are allowed.

Anonymous said...

Now think about this:

If the powers-that-be start issuing grades to teachers based on the test scores of their students, how long before those are published as well?

You may think that's a private personnel matter, but I doubt it will be considered "personal." Somebody reporter somewhere will argue Freedom of Information.

CharlotteObserver said...

Notice how adults can not even talk to each other like adults anymore. The toxic environment on this site is just the tip of the iceberg for what is happening in our society.

Has not one of you ever traveled outside our little bubble called the United States, why in most cases the person calling you to sell you something has a Masters. And is happy to get the job in the call center.

Try looking around and you too will find things need to start working here again, or they will not find any work at all every again.

Anonymous said...

For the same reason that the public is allowed to see toxicology reports from accidents. In this social media craze that we are going through everyone seems to want to know what the other person is doing. It's an absolute embarrassment to this country that these sort of things are allowed.

Read more here: http://obsyourschools.blogspot.com/2013/04/school-salaries-why-name-names.html#storylink=cpy

There are Eastern European dictatorships where citizens aren't allowed to know what their tax money goes for, let alone express an opinion on it. Perhaps you would feel less embarrassed living in one of those countries.

Devil Dog 1775 said...

Thank you Teachers for all of your unwavering dedication, limitless motivation and unequalled desire to instill an education on our children. Your devotion to duty regardless of the crass interjections by an uneducated public, show your true colors.

Most Teachers I know are teachers because they love to see young minds develop into thoughtful individuals, who, with their education, can even become President one day.

Keep the dream alive!

Anonymous said...

The test scores of individual students is personal and private and you will have a lawsuit on your hands if you publish those. They could, possibly publish "group" results for one teacher, but you should be cautious about how you read them.

If the overall class does not show growth because of how you crunch the numbers, it doesn't mean that the teacher wasn't working hard all year.

Maybe Johnny got mad at his dad on the way to school and is in a sour mood, so he just bubbles answers without trying. Maybe someone allowed Suzie to stay up until 1 a.m. playing video games the night before, and she can't keep her eyes open. Maybe Billy is sick (again!) and can't focus enough to answer the questions. Maybe Sally is scared because someone has been abusing her (physically or verbally) and that's all she can think about. Maybe Johnny knows he can never pass a test and he is terrified of having to take this one that might mean he will be retained. (I could give you many more examples!) All it takes is one or two of those kinds of things to happen and it totally skews the numbers.

You can't get a true measure of what a student learned in any of the scenarios above, so how is it realistic to judge a teacher's effectiveness based on one test???

Anonymous said...

Since the Oberver serves all the counties in the Charlotte area, where are their salaries? Why just display CMS? In addition, this Coyote individual may have had a wife who taught......may be she was not dedicated to her job and spent many hours of her personal time not preparing for the next school day.

Anonymous said...

I taught for 15 years. With the hours put in after getting home....checking 800 assignments a week takes time.....plus planning, creating worksheets, gathering art supplies, etc. I had a one week vacation a year. I worked a full day every weekend on school. My Master Degree level had wages frozen when the state got in trouble financially. I love kids, but it wasn't worth it in the 80's when social change involved what I was not raised in .... cursing, or using drugs, or consuming sugar as a staple. It is so much worse now. I became a commercial grower after telling God I would rather dig ditches than to try to babysit the unruly who ruined hard work while great kids lost time and benefits as their school day progressed. Dare critique a teacher.... for a day follow a teacher and make every move the teacher does....the day is from 6 am to midnight. Average 1200 responses a day just at school. My kids scored two grade levels higher on state test. I was lucky enough to have the Principal's children and the Superintendent's children. All my children knew when they came in my room, that I cared about them, even if they brought bad behaviors with them. As a woman, I pulled more money out the ground as a grower than I ever made in a year while teaching.

Faithwalk said...

The salary propaganda is hurting morale of our teachers and impacting our kids. Please consider the cost of living of an area when you compare teacher salaries. Consider that teachers are public servants and are paid by our tax dollars while businesses like the Observer are not so we have a right to this public information. Teachers should be paid what the market will bear not set in Raleigh. If you want higher salaries then give us year round schools and literate students; eliminate propaganda and teach trades not just push all into higher education to feed the Big Education system. And get rid of bureaucrats and federal intervention. Most teachers are opposed to common core, more federal intervention and a "one size fits all" approach and worse. 50 years of federal intervention has been epic failure:

http://www.patrioticmoms.com/1/post/2012/12/reclaim-local-control-of-education-now.html

http://www.stopcommoncore.com

http://johnlocke.org/research/show/spotlights/284

Wiley Coyote said...

Reality Check,

Thank you very much for proving my point.

I would take one hundred 6:55/10:08s teaching my kid over one like you.

As I have stated a number of times, I was married to a teacher in a past life and lived the same teacher/educrat BS talking points then as are constantly being posted here today.

My ex-wife was a good teacher as were most of her friends, but when some of them constantly whined about their professional lot in life about how they deserved this and that, their legitimate beefs about some of the problems with the system fell on deaf ears, because it became all about them.

It appears you're having diffiulty in your life - guilt as it comes across, for making more money than some of your friends teaching K-12. You obviously made a choice in your life to make a change for whatever your reasons. Newsflash - no one cares! That is the choie YOU made.

I challenge you to find one comment where I have stated "teachers are a drain on the economy." You won't find one.

Perhaps you need another "reality check".

Faithwalk said...

Do we really want people teaching who are only in it for the money anyway?

Anonymous said...

One of the Anonymous said "Only after you publish a list of Observer salaries should you publish teacher salaries".
The difference here is taxpayers do not pay Observer salaries but they do pay teacher salaries and as a taxpayer I have a right to see where my money is going.

Wiley Coyote said...

10:20,

My ex-wife taught most of her career in very high poverty schools and for over 4 years drove 80 miles roundtrip, carpooling with other teachers to teach in one of the poorest counties in South Carolina.

She did it and never complained because that's what she wanted to do.

Anonymous said...

Low salaries are one reason that large school districts are starting to import teachers from other countries.

http://www.usavisanow.com/h-1b-visa/h1b-visa-resources/h-1b-visa-occupations/teachers/

It strikes me as a national tragedy that it costs so much to educate and train teachers here and the salaries are so low that we have to look for low wage labor from overseas to teach our children.

Wiley Coyote said...

11:00

The issue no one ever wants to talk about is why there are more teachers today than at any time in this country since 1970, trillions spent since then on education, yet the graduation rate has not been at or about the level it was in 1969/1970.

Teachers are not the problem.

Educrats and government are still pushing diversity at all cost as the driving principle in education.

They have failed miserably for over 40 years by doing so.

From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

Job opportunities for teachers over the next 10 years will vary from good to excellent, depending on the place where they live and the subject they teach. Some schools are having trouble finding enough teachers, especially in cities. Today, many schools are looking for math and science teachers as well as teachers who speak a foreign language and who can teach English as a second language.

The number of jobs for teachers is expected to increase faster than the average for all occupations through 2018. Many teachers will retire, creating more job openings.


To your point:

Recent findings by Richard Ingersoll at the University of Pennsylvania show that as teacher attrition rates have risen, from about 10% to 13% for first-year teachers, schools are having to hire large numbers of new teachers. Between 40% to 50% of those entering the profession now leave within five years in what Ingersoll calls a "constant replenishment of beginners."

The end result: a more than threefold increase in the sheer number of inexperienced teachers in U.S. schools. In the 1987-88 school year, Ingersoll estimates, there were about 65,000 first-year teachers; by 2007-08, the number had grown to more than 200,000. In the 1987-88 school year, he found, the biggest group of teachers had 15 years of experience. By the 2007-08 school year, the most recent data available, the biggest group of teachers had one year experience.


Anonymous said...

Employee worth and those issues aside I can say as a city employee that the publications of the list cause A LOT off issues at work when when publishede and there is nothing like having a neighbor come up to you and tell you they thought you made more than XXXX- after reading it in the paper-

while the observer may have a good idea there are issues with it the practice-- by the way- I would love to see the observer publish their salaries- so I can see if my subscrition costs are being well spent- yeah I know- its not the same thing as public money- but....

Anonymous said...

Teaching at the Best schools in Charlotte = Just OK

Teaching at the WORST schools in Charlotte = Move ON

Both show turnover of teachers where the most populated group is on the 1-5 years of experience level. Today there is a constant turnover of new teachers within the system. This puts a constant drain on the resources of CMS and the lack of classroom teaching knowledge of administrators. The state and nation will see this trend for at least another decade.

Anonymous said...

How nice that you decided to address the concerns put against you, but I notice you still haven't posted your own salary. You can quote all the reasons you want for doing this, but it is still scummy journalism at best. If you wanted to get your point across, you could've just as easily done it with job titles, years of service, and their corresponding salaries, leaving names out. Instead, you list these individuals like they do for sex offenders living on someone's street.

Teachers are teachers for their love of children and desire to inspire them. Nobody goes into teaching for the money. However when we have to justify every measly little penny we make, and explain every moment spent working, wouldn't you become bitter? What does your schedule look like? Can you go to the bathroom whenever you'd like? I can't. Can you leave your office building for lunch? I can't. Can you work on administrative tasks while on the clock? I can't do that either. I am busy engaging with children almost every moment that I am working my designated hours.

I said it before and I will say it again. SHAME ON YOU.

Anonymous said...

You get what you pay for with teachers. Funny how the one's in CMS with zero to do with lessons and learning...are the ones making the big cash. Something is wrong with this picture nationwide, and it shows with certain kids scoring results. Slackers get the same respect/money/benefits as those working extra hard. No wonder very few really good teachers exist at public schools.

Anonymous said...

Ann- I'd be curious to see a posting of local area charter school salaries as well. Any chance on that happening?

AlphaMikeFoxtrot said...

Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year. It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do – babysit. We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan– that equals 6 1/2 hours).

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day.

However, remember they only work 180 days a year. I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

LET’S SEE…That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on. My calculator needs new batteries.)

What about those special education teachers and the ones with master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here. There sure is.

The average teacher’s salary (nationwide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student– a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)

WHAT A DEAL!

Anonymous said...

We've gotten off-topic, I believe. This isn't about what teachers do, it's about the publishing of people's personal information. You want to know where your tax dollars go? So let the CO post positions, pay, totals for schools, etc. Beyond that, get over it! The CO is breaking one of the longest-standing personal respect protocols. What a person earns is private. For the CO to publish that info, shows how low they will go, and also show's why they are struggling. Total lack of respect for the rights to individual privacy. And totally repulsive. Shame on you, CO..I guess it just goes to show what a bunch of liberal hacks you really are...

Anonymous said...

Oh, but it is about what teachers do and what every other employee does and how much they are paid for what they do.

According to Ann, "Leaders always talk about reducing bureaucracy and cutting costs,but sometimes a look at who's making what and how it changes over the years tells a different story."

I agree that instead of naming names, they should only list the position and salary. At least that would be the decent thing to do.

Anonymous said...

I wasn't saying that the CO would publish student scores but TEACHER scores if they make the decision to grade the teachers.

Wiley Coyote said...

Here is one elementary school picked at random. Starting from teachers on up the line.

Facilitators? School secretary making over $40K?

One teacher is getting paid the second highest salary at this school, right below the principal, almost $80K.

Position.......Total Compensation

Principal Elementary $93,359.52
Teacher, K-3 $79,696.90
Facilitator, Math $71,183.10
Facilitator, Elementary Literacy $68,457.40
Resident Principal, New Leaders For New Schools $65,000.00
Assistant Principal, Elementary$64,535.40
Teacher, K-3 $63,518.40
Teacher, K-3 $59,180.10
Teacher, 4-6 $59,120.90
Pathologist, Speech/Language $58,763.10
Teacher, 4-6 $56,284.10
Teacher, 4-6 $51,611.90
Specialist, Media (School) $51,466.90
Teacher, K-3 $49,743.20
Teacher, EC General Curriculum $48,492.20
Counselor, Elementary $47,159.50
Teacher, 4-6 $46,868.40
Teacher, 4-6 $45,784.10
Teacher, 4-6 $45,784.10
Teacher, K-3 $45,499.50
Teacher, K-3 $45,455.80
Teacher, K-3 $43,955.80
Teacher, K-3 $43,044.10
Teacher, Elementary Art $42,680.30
Teacher, K-3 $42,667.50
Teacher, EC General Curriculum $41,917.50
Teacher, K-3 $41,502.80
Facilitator, Technology $41,178.80
Secretary, Senior Administrative $40,248.00
Teacher, K-3 $39,502.80
Facilitator, Elementary Literacy $39,418.50
Teacher, K-3 $38,955.80
Teacher, Bilingual / ESL $38,955.80
Teacher, K-6 Computer $38,955.80
Technician, Behavior Modification - T1 $38,220.80
Teacher, Elementary General Music $37,989.70
Teacher, 4-6 $37,417.50
Teacher, 4-6 $37,417.50
Teacher, 4-6 $35,417.50
Teacher, K-3 $35,417.50
Teacher, Elementary Physical Ed $35,417.50
Teacher, K-3 $35,417.50
Teacher, K-3 $35,417.50
Teacher, K-3 $35,417.50

Anonymous said...

@7:06 Again, the way you look at the numbers and the numbers you look at make a huge difference in how you interpret the data.

Are you measuring whether the student made a year's growth or are you only looking to see if they were on grade level at the end of the year? What if they started out more than a year behind? What if they started out more than a year ahead?

If one or two students didn't measure up, do you count that teacher as a failure?

Of course, there needs to be accountability, but it has to be FAIR.

Anonymous said...

Why would ANYONE teach in CMS?

Why wouldnt ANYONE want to be in administration in CMS?

Take this job and SHOVE IT !

Anonymous said...

I'm a CMS parent. I've had experiences with great teachers and mediocre teachers, but always feel the need to "supplement" my kids' education at home regardless. Teachers do not go into the profession to make a lot of money, Administrators do though.

Just curious why elem schools have such high paid Curriculum facilitators? Grade level teachers can get all they need to teach effectively and meet common core standards from the internet now and collaborate with colleagues. Get rid of the high priced curriculum facilitators and admin positions.

Anonymous said...

8:38,
Our academic facilitator schedules the entire school every summer, runs grade level meetings, assists the testing coordinator, advisor to to a state and nationally ranked service club, advisor to an exchange program, certified in multiple disciplines, tech savvy and way underpaid for what she could be doing on the outside. She could run an entire zone office by herself at one third the cost and appreciate your efforts as well.

Anonymous said...

To 11:14am - that's great your facilitator does all of that. Some of those duties should be handled by others at the school, like grade level teachers. Also, why does our school have 4 facilitators? It's a waste of money, there should be 1-2 per school. Teachers, administrators, secretaries, counselors, EC staff, specials staff, asst principals, etc....can easily pick up some of those duties. It would save our elem school alone $152,000 per year.

Anonymous said...

As you can see, there is a RUN dont Walk away attitude toward CMS.

Great another survey

Anonymous said...

Where can we find salary information for teachers at public charter schools? Is this something that the Observer can request?

As a teacher at one of Charlotte's public charter schools, I am disturbed by the lack of transparency in the scales that are (or in this case are not) used to determine teacher pay.

Anonymous said...

Having been a public employee whose salary was posted by the Charlotte Observer (Government, not Teacher), it's not pleasant. Not just because salaries are considered very personal information in this society, but because it isn't just because of taxpayers. I get, as a taxpayer, that the money spent by the government is public information. But it's incredibly uncomfortable to know exactly what the guy next door is making. In addition, the numbers aren't necessarily accurate. They don't take into account longevity, merit pay, etc, which are state-mandated, but not part of the base pay that is listed. So on top of being very personal, it's not necessarily accurate.

Then you have problem number two - I'm the daughter of a former educator - Teachers Don't Get Paid enough. Period. I don't care which way you slice it. So there is a salary paid for 10 months of work. First, beyond the people who have pointed this out - you can take out 2 weeks of vacation to begin with - so drop the vacation time to 6 weeks. Then remember, teachers don't get out, or start on the same day your kids do. So there goes another 2 weeks, at least. So now we're done to a month off, maybe. Then you have the trainings, conferences, etc, which the State of NC doesn't pay for. Maybe, the school district might, maybe...but that's if you work in a district like CMS that has the money. Then, where did $50K come from? My dad worked nearly 20 years as a teacher, with a Masters degree, and never got paid $50K. That was over the course of 5+ school districts. The average salary in NC for a teacher is $46,605, with a starting salary of $30,779. That's across the entire state. CMS by virtue of the city and it's added budget from the County is $55K. But that also has to take into account that Charlotte is one of the most expensive places to live in the state.

Teachers don't teach to get rich. But our priorities are backward. We don't get doctors, lawyers, accountants without teachers. You didn't write your response on this blog without a teacher - I don't care who taught you to read, write, or spell, because someone taught them. And yet, we sit here and argue that to train hundreds of children, year after year, our future, that it isn't worth it to pay our teachers a reasonable and fair wage, because they "work only 10 months of the year." The only people I ever see making that argument have never sat behind the desk. And that includes the ones on here saying "oh, so and so used to be a teacher." But it was never you. So, go, sit down, and try to teach reading, science, math, social studies, while the government is breathing down your neck, assuming that you can get 25+ kids to do the same thing at the same time, and then, if they don't, it must be your fault, when even a good parent can't get 1 or 2 kids to behave or do right at the same time all the time.

Ann Doss Helms said...

We should be able to get charters; it would just be labor-intensive because we' d have to do it one school at a time. I'll look into that.

Anonymous said...

The thing I noticed the most is how top heavy expenses are for personnel. Plus on occasion they break down their salary in different areas so that it looks like they don't make so much. It also hurts that people doing the same job with different levels of experience make such differences, especially when the newer person makes more. They don't care about dedication.

Anonymous said...

Wait until Pay for Performance

It will be Project Left for the best and brightest teachers.

Anonymous said...

Gorman added all those area superintendents. Why don't we eliminate them all immediately and use the millions saved to help increase pay in those teaching areas where there are shortages.
The pay list provided by CO lets us see that waste.

Anonymous said...

Eliminate at the top. Eliminate area superintendents. What a joke that over 50% of CMS employees are non-instructional positions.