North Carolina legislature leaders announced a budget compromise with fanfare yesterday, touting it as including the largest teacher pay hike in the state's history. Top line figures: 7 percent salary raises, and no cuts to teacher assistants.
We're still waiting on the formal details of the budget to be published (that's expected to be around 10 p.m. tonight). But WRAL has published a state Fiscal Research Division document with a chart that shows what the new teacher base salary range should be under the budget proposal.
Teachers with five to 10 years experience will have the biggest pay bumps. Those with 30+ years won't see much of a difference.
Longevity pay would go away, according to the North Carolina Association of Educators. There's also much fewer pay levels than the old system.
Granted, this all could presumably still change.
Teachers: What are your thoughts on the teacher pay deal? Shoot me an email.
Wednesday, July 30, 2014
What will the state budget really mean for teacher pay?
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As an experienced teacher, it means I take a pay cut when you factor in longevity loss. It looks like this notion of North Carolina moving up to 32nd in the nation in teacher pay is going to be based on fuzzy math. When everything is calculated, this will be an embarrassment for legislators because is fails to honor the profession and North Carolina's average teacher pay will drop instead of rise. There's no way a person will want to go into a profession with no chance to advance salary after ten years of service.
Based on my wife's longevity it would not be a raise. Longevity would go from being a bonus to BEING her raise. It's robbing Peter to pay...
...Peter. But the s cker who support these clowns in Raleigh will by the spin that it is really a raise across the board.
As a teacher with 20 years experience, what I lose in longevity will be more than I get with a raise! My longevity will end up funding raises for less experienced teachers and I will have a cut in my compensation!!!
This is a PAY CUT for teachers with experience. Does anyone think that we cannot do simple math. Not only is the longevity lost a teacher will start having a reduction in salary after 20 years. I thought I had seen everything but this one takes the cake.
Thank God for the improving ecomomy and bonehead leaders for waking me up.I will be looking to get out of education after 20 years.God Bless the new teachers that will have the rug pulled out from them in a few years.
WAKE UP NC
Where is the "M" salary schedule? This is so frustrating. People need to wake up and vote.
How can giving us more money via a "raise" but TAKING away our supplement be seen as an increase in pay? Yes, technically I will be making SLIGHTLY more-VERY slightly, however that amount doesn't begin to cover the cost of living increase we battle each year. If NC wants to drive experienced teachers away they are on the right track. Oh, and by the way, I am not one of the stereotypical OLDER teachers (not that there's anything wrong with that)....I am on my feet ALL day ACTIVELY engaging my students, I eat lunch with them daily and join them during recess playing soccer, tag, or whatever. I purchase science materials so they can ACTIVELY be involved in learning, I buy books and so on for them to use.....nothing that most of us don't do. And my kids learn (as I do too).
NCAE sheep..same old rhetoric...same ol talking points. NCAE is a failed organization that would rather practice politics than represent teacher. When you bed with just one political party youre gonna lose everytime. Shame on you NCAE and your sheep!
I spoke with my State Rep and he said that those teachers with a Masters will get that on top of the figure you see in their proposed schedule.
Masters pay will be figured on top of the new pay schedule they have released.
As a reporter you should be asking why we haven't seen this information. This legislature tries to pass things quickly before the details are out. They are trying to spin this as a 7% raise when in reality - many experienced will get almost no raise when they lose their longevity.
I think what most young teachers in this state will have to realize that in the end they will work 30 years and get paid very little for it. They will get a large pay increase up front but over time they will trapped into a system that cares very little for public education or the teachers that provide it.
North Carolina "To seem, rather than to be!"
WOW Todd, This means (not taking into account the increase for my two Masters----oops only get an increase for one) that I'll get a 3.31% increase. Wonder where I should spend it-groceries, gas for my 30 plus mile ONE WAY commute, or housing. Sheesh. And what man don't realize/think about is that this impacts our retirement as well since what we comes out of our pay for retirement is a %age of what we make. And who is paying for 3 of the inservices I have signed up for this coming year....oh that would be me-as I do EACH year.
Fuzzy math indeed - keep digging - I want to see the charts for Masters and National Boards - unless the legislature removed that as well.......
I have just a few years left before I earn my 30 years - if I did not have so many years invested.....
- I will have to research and determine what is best for my family
What about Master's degree pay?
.
LET’S SEE WHERE THIS FITS IN THE HISTORY OF TEACHER PAY RAISES.
Clearly this is a raise in the top 10% since 1972. However, it will mean little if the General Assembly’s tax plan can’t sustain similar raises over the next 5 years.
See the chart below taken from Fiscal Research Division data. It shows that even the highest raise in the last 42 years(1983-84) was preceded and followed by good efforts from Raleigh. The exception was 1982-83. There is always an exception.
The chart is an example that consecutive raises are the rule; not the exception.
76-77….4% + $300 (average 7.2%)
77-78….6.5%
78-79….6%
79-80….5% + $200 one-time bonus
80-81….10% + 2% to 10% added to each step
81-82….5%
82-83….0%
83-84….5%
84-85….10% plus 4.8% salary classification adjustment
85-86….4.8% for second year teachers, 2-step increase (9.6%) third or more year teachers
86-87….6.5%
87-88….5%
88-89….5.5%
89-90….6.65%
90-91….6.15%
Special note: from 1982 to 1985 steps were frozen
These numbers above show what it is going to take to re-establish the trust between teachers and the General Assembly. This raise, either 6% or 7%, if it happens, can’t be one-and-done.
Bolyn McClung
Pineville
.
Bolyn McClung- Unfortunately from what I have seen/heard/read the raise is an AVERAGE of 7.something. Depending on where a teacher falls it can be as low as 3.something which is the case for many of us. What does this do to promote teacher retention in NC?
Taking longevity pay just tells those who have stuck with NC for over 10 years in the classroom instead of taking other opportunities "We don't appreciate you". We are getting ready to begin yet another school year and I am sure teachers will be asked to stay after school, come to events, spend hours at home doing for students and although we want to for our students at what point do we say we have had enough.
So...just for the record....WHO IS GOING TO MENTOR these young teachers. NOT ME..NOT ANYMORE. Good luck with your classroom management skills. Did the legislators THINK about the "divide" that they are creating in a profession that depends on cooperation and collaboration? I have only 1 more year and I just got PUNISHED for my loyalty. Thanks for nothing NC. You are now about to lose all those "Experienced" teachers to the other states. Good luck with your rookies and your TFA's!
Maybe I should just take my experience, and leave this state for someplace that is trying to improve the pay situation for teachers like Tennessee or Texas.
Great way to "stick it" to all those pre-retirees. Keep that pension salary as low as possible. Can we "sue" the state for breach of contract? Had we known that we were going to get the shaft 27 years ago we would not have stayed. Advice to young teachers: This too could be you!!If they did not keep their promise to us, what makes you think that they will keep it to you?
CAN they "Legally" take away longevity? Or must they "grandfather" that in for the new hires?
I wonder if any of these "experienced" legislators think about decreasing their pay 25%, freezing all of their expense accounts, and then eliminating seniority so when I get elected for a first term I get immediate "seniority". Looks like we are still the Rip Van Winkle State.
My wife and I, who are both teachers, depended on our longevity pay to buy clothes and back to school supplies for our children. Since both of us are at the mercy of our state for our salaries, we are both going to be taking a hefty pay cut out of our household income. We were already pinching pennies as it is. Do they realize that they are punishing teachers who have devoted their careers to public education? My wife and I just can't find another job that pays even what our job does with our skill set. If they can't come up with a plan that doesn't screw someone over, I'd rather them not do anything.
Will the longevity pay cease for all state employees? If that is the case, then we have robbed Peter to pay Paul, perpetual at all levels. Disgusting.
This is ri-dic-ulous! The public is going to buy into the soundbite of 7% but those who do the math will know how little we're really getting.
Truth be told, most teachers are expendable. As we leave for other jobs for more money and respect, we leave behind confused classes, disruptions in teaming, activities and duties.
Long gone are the days of knowing what schools and what teachers your children will have next year! And the exodus will continue.
Wow - look a gift horse in the mouth.
Where were all these teacher complaints when Easley & Purdue were screwing all of us by putting the state in so much debt. I find it amazing that our current administration/legislature has done as well as they have considering the many Dem years.
I for one appreciate the effort and improvement.
A 7% teacher pay raise should be a 7% pay raise across the board. To reward teaching inexperience and penalize those with more years of experience is patently unfair (but unsurprising)!
Houston, we have a problem.
If you can retire, retire and go double dip in another state. If you are young, leave. Go on teachers blogs and warn other teachers not coming here. They will only miss us if we are gone. Talk is over it is time for action.
It's not just teachers getting the shaft. School Psychologists and Speech Pathologists have always had a separate schedule. Now they enter on Step 5 of the teacher's schedule, which only has 6 steps. So experienced professionals will make virtually the same as newcomers and there is only one raise possible over a career.
Tillis, Berger, and governor-first talking of rewarding hard working teachers by rewarding "merit pay" now they are is throwing money at less experienced teachers just to get VOTES. hmm discriminating against more experienced- older- teachers by cutting their longevity and pay folks...do the math.. maybe time to go back to court-age discrim. and of course next time we vote them out
Re: longevity pay. Yikes.
I'm reentering the public school teaching force in a new area and therefore am at the entry level pay scale which is $33,880 with a master's degree. I'll be working for a charter school in a rural resort area that gave me credit for my master's degree despite the state taking it away. My 1989 starting salary in Maryland as a lateral entry teacher with a master's degree was approximately $31,000.
Starting salaries in NC aren't sustainable if the state wishes to attract qualified teaching candidates particularly at schools with chronic challenges which the state isn't paying me enough to work for even with additional Title 1 combat funding. I'm sorry.
However, sacrificing longevity pay isn't sustainable either and greatly undermines children in our state. How tragic all the way around.
Alicia
I'm with the longevity crowd, too. My understanding is that our longevity pay is rolled into our new salary. We technically don't lose it. We then get a 1000 bonus. Our increases are still pitifully small.
DUNN
I hope you are already working on a follow up story to explain to the citizens of Charlotte the "rest of the story". If not,then you are just a mouthpiece for their talking points. Do some work and explain this MESS of a so called raise.
Did the state come down to Charlotte to be advised on smoke and mirror tactics?
This is Gorman/MOrisson 101.Just a PR move and a new name to move the chairs around again on the Titanic.
This may, just may be the final straw to get teachers to do what informed teachers should have done 4 years agao.
STRIKE
I notice that no one is pointing out that the teachers who have suffered the most at the hands of the salary freeze are the ones getting the highest raises. Considering the number of teachers between five and ten years of experience that are leaving the state, I am glad to see that this budget proposal addresses that issue.
From my reading of the chart, a person with 30 years experience is actually getting a pay cut. Please tell me if I'm wrong.
Anon 10:16, you actually have to go across and down one column to get the actual change for an individual teacher (because they're moving from year X in experience to year X+1). So it will be a $1,000 increase.
I am extremely disappointed in this decision by the legislature. It is quite obvious that our lawmakers do not value teaching experience. This is a "slap in the face" to NC teachers who have worked 20+ years for very modest wages.
Thinking about Ann over in healthcare...
The good news is that I will receive full individual health coverage through the state for about $14.00 a month. My charter school decided to opt out of the state retirement plan in favor of a better plan. For me, health coverage is worth around $6,500 a year.
Wondering how health coverage may or may not impact teacher salaries?
Alicia
There will still be a gaping hole in the budget after all the spin. The GOP'ers know this and will use it to justify cuts in services next year in the long session. These guys will be in office until at least 2020 due to gerrymandering. They are responsible to no one except their campaign contributors, who essentially pay to advertise them for a guaranteed seat every other year. It's a sad state of affairs in NC. The in-crowd now are just like the good-old boys Democrats they replaced.
That is the way STATE Government works. As a state employee with 23 years experience, they hire people off the street making the same as someone that has 23 years experience. Get use to it if you need your medical insurance.
Teachers, read It and weep beginning on page 50, http://www.ncleg.net/sessions/2013/budget/2014/S744-CCSMDXF-1-v-62.pdf#storylink=relast
Most states do not work like this..
Not to come here.. Sorry.. Tired..
I have 16 years and a master's degree. If I lose pay in all this, I'm gone!
as a teacher MOVING TO NC, I've been told that my master's degree won't be honored. Never mind that it was earned in 2009 (before their deadline for NC teachers). HOW do they hope to attract new teachers, exactly?
Going into my 8th year of teaching, and having my pay frozen at the 2nd year teacher marker, this boost is going to be nice. I won't feel that lingering stress at night as to how I'll pay for my daughter's day-care or preschooling. We may even get our chance for our first family vacation.
However, the state's refusal to pay extra for a Master's Degree is going to hurt NC's students more in the long run. As teachers, we don't stop mastering our craft once we get a degree. All good teachers seek to better themselves year in and year out. Who wants to be okay with mediocrity? That's the message that the State officials send us when they claim that a Master's Degree is not important enough to reward with compensation.
1:40
I suggest NC teachers who don't like their compensation go to New York, Chicago, LA or Detroit.
You can make almost double the salary. That way, you'll be very happy.
I suggest Houston, Colombia, Atlanta..... A person does not have to look hard to find better teaching pay. NC is a bad market for teachers. It would not be smart to teach here.
Colombia South America or Columbia, SC?
I wouldn't call Atlanta or Houston garden spots either.
Regarding Columbia, Richland 1 is worse than Charlotte.
It's more then just the pay.. It's the drama!! Is this really the new pay plan? What will it look like after next session? Will they cut in non-election years? What about tenure? Are masters out? Will the governor veto it? Ship of fools man.. Not just the Republicans Wiley.. I mean both parties.. Take it easy!!
I would not want my child to teach in NC. There are many places where teachers are respected. NC is just not one of them.
The existing pay scale was set up for the adults that the school system hires, and not for the children the system serves. The existing pay system rewards old-timer teachers with longevity pay and high base salaries, while the young teachers get paid poverty level wages. The pay system was not created to help children get the best teachers in their classrooms, but instead to meet the requests of the teacher lobbying arm. Teacher job performance has been irrelevant in the state's pay system. Longevity drives pay.
The existing pay system is very nineteenth century. It's about time the state started to change the pay scale at least in some small way.
Of course, change is not easy when there's a vested interest in the existing system. People get angry when you try to change things. This message board is a testament to that. Amen.
Charlotte is not necessarily a rose either!! Every city has its issues. If your well compensated, you can afford to live in a suburb. I heard Las Vegas pays well.. It might be a good choice for a young person.. NC is just not worth it. God forbid if you wanted to start a family!!
Where did I say anything about political party?
The "woe is me I'm a teacher I don't get paid enough" argument has been going on for decades and not just in NC.
I've said repeatedly in this blog and elsewhere teachers deserve to get back what they lost and then some. However, this goes much farther than just the people in Raleigh. Arne Duncan and Barack Obama favor eliminating master's pay and also pay for performance.
I heard all these woe is me comments back in the mid-80's in the same Richland 1 district in Columbia that you think so highly of.
I know, my ex-wife was a teacher.
You have an X wife!!! Shocking!! Just kidding, and I agree... Teachers should just be given what they were promised. Democrats are no friend of teachers. I would not mind pay for performance but I fear it would all be arbitrary or based on a test score that is compared to a test that was taken years before. The south overall is not a good market for teachers. Indiana is looking good to me. Great people in Indiana..
I don't think NC system really services anyone. Except people sitting in cubicles downtown creating paperwork to justify their jobs.
Pay for performance will not work due to too many variables in the criteria used to determine the outcome.
Also, be careful, as many districts have seen their graduation rates and test scores rise dramatically during the time of frozen salaries and budget cuts.
That lends credence to the argument of better performance and doing more with less.
In the new budget principals and assistant principals will still get longevity pay. Why?
When I was hired as a NC teacher several years ago, I remember being told new hires would no longer receive longevity pay. Is my memory wrong or is this true?
It's not unlike the big tax cut they are bragging about. If you look at the number you will see that while it is thousands for people making over 200K, it is chicken feed for the majority of citizens and is actually an income tax INCREASE for the working poor and retired people. Then to add insult to injury, they increased the number of items you have to pay sales tax on. Now they are using the same dishonest tactics on the teachers. ...and the chickens will just keep voting for Col. Sanders.
Bobby Padgett, Thanks for the link!
I suppose the state thinks we can teach but not do simple math. This is ridiculous to say the least. I wish I wouldn't have wasted 27 years working in a state which has little to few respect for teachers. But we don't need a union.....Ha,
Good question?
The boys and girls in cubicles win again!!! F$#* this state..
I think it was also mentioned that non-certified school workers would get a longevity pay taken away and get a $500.00 raise. For the ones that have been in the system for over 10 that can also be a pay decrease of several hundred dollars per year. Basically teachers and support staff could loose. The legislation wouldn't give something for nothing unless it benefits them in some way.
Northern Virginia pays at least 16,000 more on average to their teachers.
Move or Move your feet " STRIKE "
Raise?
What an absolute JOKE. They are going to ramrod this through before anyone has a chance to vet this aboration of a compromise.
As a 20 veteran teacher this is a slap in the face. Sad Day!
Great pay plan! Infuses $282 million new dollars into teacher salaries. Qualified teachers can still receive masters pay, national board certification pay, and local supplements, and 15,000 per year in benefits. Wish folks in the private sector could have a deal like that!
We'll as a teacher going into my 28th year looks like I'm pretty much screwed...and very under appreciated as I have given this many years of service to the North Carolina Schools. I have always at least been able to count on the Longevity and very much needed it and now found out ,we'll that will be gone too. Word of advice new teachers...North Carolina isn't the place to come and teach because they WILL NOT look after you!
As a 5th Year teacher, this raise is a blessing. My wife (7th year teacher) and I haven't seen a raise...ever...except that 1% we got a few years ago that took us from $30,000 to $30,300...
As a colleague to many veteran teachers, this budget is nonsense...I feel that the NCGA wants to pit veteran teachers versus novice teachers. Schools are supposed to be cooperative and I have survived many days with the help of an experienced coworker. If they feel that I am "taking their pay", it may add animosity among the ranks (which is probably what the NCGA wants...)
It is a war on veteran teachers that make the most money. Lawmakers believe that veteran teachers will not leave the state or quit teaching because we have so many years in. Many people who do not have jobs in the education field do not understand this budget and that all educators did not receive a 7% raise and that most of us spend a great deal of our money of our classrooms each year.
As a 31 year veteran, this is such a slap in the face. I think of all the committees and extra duties I've been assigned because I was a.veteran teacher. We are really being shown how we are appreciated. I'm done!
As a 10th year T.A. (Sp. Ed. SAC/AU) the mentality of our "leaders" in CMS and the state legislature never fail to leave me scratching my head. They talk about how important teachers are but punish us for being loyal to our students and striving to give them our best. This is a career that is not just a job. We want to invest in our students and rejoice in their triumphs as well as pick them up when they stumble. I think that most of the people responding to this article will agree that you don't teach for the money. But is it too much to expect that you are able to live on your salary? The legislature may have to learn a painful lesson that education on the cheap is no education at all and it will cost double what it would otherwise have cost to remedy.
I am thankful for our raise. I also like the fact that state employees and troopers will get a raise and that Medicaid is being reformed. Teachers are not as "poor pitiful me" as they are trying to be. I have been teaching 15 years. I am thankful for my job, especially in an economy like the present one. I am thankful for the raise. We could have not gotten one at all. The way I see it, it is a compromise . Many factors had to be taken into consideration in our state budget, not just teVher pay. People complained when the salary was frozen,. They complained about the tenure proposal. They complained when they thought they would lose teacher assistants, and on and on and on. It looks like some people won't be happy no matter what.
Um, steps 30, 35 & 36 are getting a pay cut. How is that legal?
Guess what? No more "freebies" from me a 37 year teacher. Kids don't have supplies? It is broken crayons and brown paper towels to write on. No ear buds for the "New Technology"? Go to Dollar Tree. Need an expert for a committee? F**K You, get a TFA recruit. I will be "working To Contract" this year. My required hours and the advised one hour staff meeting a month. No more Professional Development for hours after school, no more "volunteering" at football games, no more After School Tutoring "for free". No more NOTHING!! You want to treat us like crap I will give you the crap you think I am. There,don't mess with a teacher or their pay. We can read and we know the law. My keys are in my had at the minute the clock says I can go. I know my students will suffer, but obviously the state does not care either. So maybe the parents and voters will care when they see they have to pay for a tutor or hire security at games,...or maybe, just maybe the parents will actually "volunteer" at the games themselves????????? God No! Parents will have to pay for school supplies? God NO!!!! Because if every teacher did what I am going to do it will send a message. We did it in Florida in the 80's and it worked!
What about teachers forming a group to spearhead their complaints, to come together...united? In NY, when teachers do that...and they get worked up like "hornets"....the politburo listens and takes heed. There is power in a united front....not so much as individuals ranting and venting. I've been in several states as an educator...what I've seen in NC over the past 3-4 yrs. is disgusting. A thin veiled disguised "payoff" is what this latest piece of legislature is. Maybe it is up to us to see that real change happens...not those in Raleigh!
Smoking Pipe Dreams about educators coming together. Bleeding heart liberals that will have their pay frozen. Teachers are not going to do a darn thing that will make a difference. Legislature knows that they will work for whatever peanuts given.
Clean up isle 10. Will be nice to finally run off the dead beat free loaders and replace them with college educated professionals. Longevity is nothing more than union talk for guarantees not based on performance. Get some youngsters in there who want to work and not eat up the whole payroll of a school. Good job republication s.
Some people urge teachers to leave NC or switch careers. It is not as easy as switching states or careers. I don't want to leave my family, friends, or church. I love my school and my students and co-workers. On my meager teacher salary, I can't afford to move and start over nor is there any guarantee I can sell my house in this market and small town. The school system is the biggest employer in my county and there are no jobs here. Why is it so difficult for legislators to come up with a fair pay scale? Other states seem to manage to respect their teachers. The answer is not for me to leave but to vote these clowns out of office and hope for someone better to take their place.
As the parent of two children in the N.C. public school system, reading some (not all) of the teachers' comments here has been an eye-opening, disheartening experience. As parents, we have paid for our all kids' school supplies, and frequently send in items on teachers' lists for classroom supplies the system does not pay for. As a side note, we own our own business, and, after the economy hit the skids, and buying on the private market a worse benefits package than a N.C. teacher receives, our family of four has been living for years on less than what one N.C. teacher earns, without a guaranteed pension for retirement. (Personally, I think pay for N.C teachers should be DOUBLED and structured to attract and retain great teachers.)
That said, today we all have to support our families in this wretched, real-world economy, whether we like it or not. Do you know what the job market is like in the private sector right now? Do you know what your benefits package adds to your base pay, which more adequately reflects your true compensation? What working adult has two months off every year to use as vacation, investments in personal or professional improvement, a great time to be together as a family, or the chance to work a second job to make more money? OF COURSE good teachers deserve FAR more than what they have gotten from Raleigh with this budget. But I can tell you what my husband (with his university degree, lengthy private sector resume and years of service volunteering inside and outside the school system) is going to do next week. He will apply for a job as a North Carolina teacher, and our family will thank God above if he gets it. We have many family members and friends who teach in the public and private schools, as well as at the university level, and know how stressful, draining and challenging the job can be.
In conclusion: My father, at 76, received the Volunteer of the Year award this year at the rural, public school where he volunteers almost as much time as a full-time employee. For NO pay. Please let me contrast that with comment of the 37-year veteran of teaching, under the moniker "Charlotte-Mecklenburg High School Teacher:"
"Guess what? No more "freebies" from me a 37 year (sic) teacher. Kids don't have supplies? It is broken crayons and brown paper towels to write on. No ear buds for the "New Technology"? Go to Dollar Tree. Need an expert for a committee? F**K You, get a TFA recruit. I will be "working To Contract" this year. My required hours and the advised one hour staff meeting a month. No more Professional Development for hours after school, no more "volunteering" at football games, no more After School Tutoring "for free". No more NOTHING!! You want to treat us like crap I will give you the crap you think I am. There, don't mess with a teacher or their (sic) pay. We can read and we know the law. My keys are in my had (sic) at the minute the clock says I can go. I know my students will suffer..."
Charlotte-Mecklenburg parents, some of your children are going to have this individual "teaching" your child next year. What more can I say?
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