Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools is putting the final touches on a performance-pay proposal that will be sent to state officials by March 1. On Thursday, there's a public meeting from 4:30 to 6 p.m. at River Gate Elementary, 15340 Smith Road, for people to get an update, ask questions and make comments.
It's not clear to me how much detail will be disclosed about the work in progress. The CMS announcement talks about getting input on a compensation proposal, but when I tried to get a copy of the draft proposal Chief Operating Officer Millard House answered that "a plan does not yet exist, there are only ideas so we are unable to fulfill this request." There's a Power Point presentation that was shown at a public meeting on the compensation proposal last week, which I missed, and House says a plan will be made public on Feb. 26.
We know the state's Race to the Top proposal, which won a four-year federal grant of almost $400 million, calls for using student gains on test scores to help rate teacher effectiveness. And we know state and CMS leaders are talking about using other measures as well, such as student surveys and classroom observations. Still to be seen is how CMS proposes to link this kind of evaluation to pay -- and where the money might come from.
Plans created by CMS and other participating school districts will go from the state Board of Education through the state's Fiscal Research Division and various legislative groups. I haven't been able to track down a clear answer about next steps, but it sounds like we're still quite a ways from changing the way teachers are paid.
The group that has been working on a CMS proposal since last fall is made up of teachers and principals, including representatives of such groups at the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Association of Educators and the Classroom Teachers Association. This group has been described as one of the 22 task forces Superintendent Heath Morrison announced in November, but it's not listed on the rosters released earlier this month. That's because CMS plans to expand the task force in March to build on the work of the current group.
"The second phase focuses on the larger compensation piece that will be centered around how we pay ALL of our employees," House explained. "This will include employees from other departments in the district, licensed employees from our schools (including teachers that were involved in phase one of this work), at least one student and community members that were recommended by our leadership or those community members who expressed an interest in this work. The work from phase 1 will inform part of the second phase of this work."
Tuesday, January 29, 2013
CMS performance pay: Plan is coming
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
48 comments:
Here's a performance pay plan for you:
Hiring singleton should result in a 50% superintendent pay cut.
This is great! Now we can use all the money we spent on these worthless CMS teachers to buy back guns!!
CMS teachers are worthless and should all be fired. CMS should be closed.
If any of them make more than minimum wage, fire em.
Calm down Heath.
7:52 would you mind clarifying your comment about "CMS teachers are worthless and should all be fired"?
I used to teach in CMS and sure, there are *SOME* who were not worth their pay, but not all - not by a longshot! Worthless??? Do you know how many of these "worthless" teachers regulary work 10-12 hour days? Do you know how many of these "worthless" teachers selflessly give their time to tutor students without any other compensation?
CMS teachers are some of the most dedicated people you will ever meet should you ever decide to use reasoning. What do you base this on? ALL of them are worthless????
Ok, I'm game.....let's look into your proposal that "...all should be fired" Let's say that you get your way and all of those horrible people are shown the door. Out out out you monsters!
Now that 9,221 teachers are gone (CMS Fast Facts on their website) whatever shall be done to replace them? Where will we find 9,221 people interested in filling these now-vacant positions? I assure you that despite the surplus of teachers up north, it won't be easy nor are there enough new graduates, Teach for America, and Teach Charlotte people.
Also, once word gets out that there was a mass-firing, do you think that will be attractive to an aspiring teacher? Will that entice a teacher elsewhere to come to CMS?
I notice you didn't mention anything about administrators who are worthless. Believe me, that is one of the reasons I no longer teach in CMS. What about the worthless parents? What about the kids who can't/wont behave/learn?
No, blame the teachers. You are a real genius and oh how sarcastic I am!!!
I'll be curious if CMS' plan, or whatever the state cobbles together has any out clauses in it?
Meaning, 5-10 years from now when it's fully realized that performance pay measures have no effect on consistently raising test scores (let alone achievement), then what?
Mr. Wise, in response to your question (Then what?): the "leaders" will not admit that they were wrong all along and will then impose some new, expensive, and equally-ineffective boondoggle. Repeat process.
I think 7:52 is a classic "trying to tick people off" comment. I'd suggest folks not spend a lot of energy arguing whether to close CMS and fire all teachers; there's a lot of room for meaningful discussion of how to move ahead with compensation.
How can you rate teachers pay when you just dump 30 kids in their laps? Blame race , Blame the state heck then blame the County. Listen Heath , dont blame the teachers for the sorry state of CMS. Go outside your little office with your nice suit and point fingers at the downtown suits. Most of your teachers cannot even control the climate in the classrooms let alone the grads coming out of them.
Ann, you are right! I would like to see how us teachers can be expected to challenge students and be held accountable for their "performance" when we can't even assign a grade lower than a 50%. Even if the student does absolutely no work, the student gets a 50%. It doesn't take the kids long to figure this one out. And yet, we are going to be paid for "performance" when the kids themselves don't truly have to perfom and still get something for nothing.
Ann, why won't the Observer ever do a hard-hitting expose on this travesty? Why do you and the rest of the paper seem to always place nice with CMS? This is a MAJOR issue and a cause of a lot of discontent. This is something that can really get the public talking as well as it being good for circulation.
I am sorry Ann if this bothers you but the truth is, a lot of people feel that you treat CMS with "kid gloves" and are too accomodating. Sorry, but that is how a lot of people feel.
How do you create incentives for people when the legislature will not allocate any more money?
I think most teachers would love an performance pay system. Unfortunately the devil is in the details. It is hard to figure out how to base pay on test scores. There are a lot of variables involved. It is also hard to come up with a performance based system that doesn't punish teachers for teaching in low income schools. The idea of student surveys is interesting but did most people truly like their best teacher? Often times the most demanding teachers are disliked by students until they get older and realized how much they taught them. The teacher evaluation instrument is now incredibly complicated and tedious. I hope my pay never depends upon the use of that instrument alone. I think most teachers would be very open to performance pay as long as it didn't crush their current economic standing. If test scores are the only variable used then good luck getting good candidates for teaching jobs much less keeping good teachers in low income schools.
10:39, I am not at all bothered by criticism, especially when it's focused on a valid topic and politely written, as yours is. I asked Heath Morrison about the 50 percent policy shortly after he started; he said he and Ann Clark were going to review whether that should be a districtwide policy. This is a good reminder that I need to follow up.
I think the 50 percent policy is a valid issue to question, but I don't think it would affect a compensation plan. All the talk I've heard has been focused on end-of-year test scores, rather than classroom grades.
This PFP junk has been batted around more than a Sammy Sosa steriod needle. ITS NOT HAPPENING anytime soon folks. As many have stated how do you even get a teacher to work in a under performing school if its based on motivating kids? Is LIFT exempt? You have over loaded the class room size as it is now you want quality to come out of it? IN NO WAY does that equation work Heath. Put that in your RENO pipe and smoke it.
10:39 AM is absolutely correct, Ann. Why don’t you do a little more digging, why don’t you point out all the accommodations made for one, I repeat, ONE, demographic. Then point out all the trillions of dollars spent on that ONE demographic since the mid 60s and what little we have to show for it. Point out that ONE demographic continually fails, continually lags behind every other group in test scores, grades, intelligence, etc. They lag behind in every single measurable category that schools are charged with providing. Yet they can always be counted on to be at the top of the charts when it comes to assaults, violent acts, truancy, tardiness, expulsions, etc. Alas however, the Wizard has arrived! Glenn Singleton is going to be brought on board to work his magic. His solution to all of this is to re-program, and single out yet another demographic; The evil that is not only responsible for all that ails CMS, but responsible for the continued failure of black students – White Teachers! He will single-handedly reverse black test scores, truancy, and violence by teaching teachers to no longer think white, no longer teach white, no longer act white, no longer see, think, or even breath white. That is indeed the answer! God-forbid anyone would turn a finger towards the root of the real problem when it’s so easy to blame others. I’ll wager you anything you like that this Singleton clown will leave town, after collecting half a million in salary over four years, having had no significant positive increase whatsoever amongst the demographic he is here to help.
Gee, let's pay doctors according to how many of their patients get well. It shouldn't depend on whether or not the patient takes their meds, follows doctors' orders, or stepts out in front of a truck. Just on how many get well despits all other factors. And if a patient dies....well, forget it!
Ann, may I suggest that you do an article about it? Please let the public be made aware of the issue. Sure, ask Dr. Morrison and/or Ann Clark for their perspective and justification for it as well as people who would be opposed to it. You can ask teachers but few, if any, would go on record. This is something that needs to be on the front page. You could even ask the obvious: how does this help students? Interview HR people at some of Charlotte's major employers for their perspective and ask how this nonsense would prepare anyone for the working world?
I feel that this would indeed affect performance, especially at low income schools where parental involvement is a serious concern. Students whose parents are involved in their education would, of course, not tolerate their children slacking off. Teachers who are in schools where this kind of student is the norm would have a distinct advantage over schools filled with apathetic students and parents.
As one person (10:58) already stated, good luck attracting (let alone KEEPING) quality teachers at challenging schools.
Wow! Such bad feelings towards the people trying to educate our kids. They will grow up stupid if we don't try. Cut teacher's pay and we may be able to bump Mississippi from the bottom.
Except for the purposely antagonistic poster, it appears to me teachers are supported well in this blog.
The following does not directly relate to pay for performance but it does relate to the angst being expressed here by many. Follow the link to read commentary comparing Heath Morrison to Allstate's "Mayhem" character: http://pundithouse.com/2013/01/theres-a-superintendent-born-every-minute/.
Bit of resemblance there I would say and comments are right on.
I'm not going to comment on the content of that Pundit House blog, but the physical resemblance made me laugh.
11:34 a.m., I'll write about the 50 percent rule when I get something solid (I blogged about it before). But I anticipate exactly the challenge you cite: It may be hard to find a teacher to go on record opposing an official policy. Doesn't mean I won't try to get teacher views, though.
I am a teacher and all this makes me mad as living hell. If it's not enough that I have to deal with a bunch of elitist soccer moms breathing down my neck, a corrupted pricipal, and criminally motivated students obsessed with Facebook,......now I have to deal with yet another obstacle thrown at us by the school system. You all should think about why we quit, and never return to teaching again.
It is appalling to try and base pay on test scores of children who want to fail. There can be no teaching until there is order. Right now, we cannot maintain order in our classrooms thanks to the principals and the corrupted county office.
11:23a - Pay For Performance is one of the mandates of Race To the Top, the state pretty much has to put in place some kind of compensation plan that incorporates performance.
While I agree a lot of teachers will probably end up outraged at whatever plan is finalized, I doubt very many will end up quitting, not because they need the job but because they want to teach regardless.
Ann, if I may be so bold as to suggest an idea (or maybe it's already been done), I'd like to know what the various state leaders opinions are about education and education reform. I sort of know what Governor McCrory thinks and Rep. Samuelson's opinion is pretty obvious (Rep. Cotham's too), but what about some of the other power brokers that'll be shaping this legislation?
Ann, if you are there at these discussions and are allowed to ask questions, here'e one...many, many former excellent teachers work at CMS in other capacities such as teaching teachers how to do a better job. Does everyone know that most of these people are still paid teachers' wages? So then, how will they get pay for performance since they are no longer in the classroom?
herding cats
The phrase herding cats comes from the common saying that something involving coordination of many different groups or people is as difficult as herding cats.
Anything CMS does is like herding cats.
How can any CMS teacher be positive when we have 11 year teachers being paid the salary of a six year teacher. Are Teachers ever going to be made current on rate. It's a joke.
As a teacher, lifelong Charlottean, and CMS product, I am appalled that CMS would continue this path toward pay-for-performance. Regardless of what's said, educating these kids is not a business. Schools are special places. We should not be forcing a business model in a top-down fashion, which then creates a "Catch 22" situation for the teacher and leaves too many gaps for biased evaluations and changing rules. We dedicate our lives to helping children of all backgrounds, even the ones that don't want it or know how to accept it. Do we get to choose our students, or do we get to hold parents accountable for the lack of parenting to prepare them for school? Those are key questions this plan, nor CMS for that matter, care to address.
Jeff, you make me pine for the days when I could have asked Eric Frazier to hold down the home front and gone to Raleigh for a week. I also wish Sunday's legislative preview had included education. What I will do is stay in close touch with the Raleigh N&O crew and Jim Morrill to try to make sure we can keep readers up to date on legislative issues related to education.
And yes folks, this public meeting on Thursday is strategically not centrally-located for CMS' benefit to dissuade high attendance.
JOKE is RIGHT!
Pay me what you already owe me first:
ABC Bonus Money
Health Insurance 80/20
Dental Insurance
Vision Insurance
COLA Adjustments (STEPS) / Pension
Jeff Wise hit it on the head. It is all about the Federal Race to the Top MONEY! Morrison and the BOE do not care about Teachers and Students. All they care about is getting their greedy paws on this money. All these surveys and tests are smoke and mirrors or the proverbial dog and poney show to justify the top administrator jobs.
You wont have to "fire all the teachers". It wont be much longer until most will leave on their own or God forbid, STRIKE
Teachers do not have collective bargaining in a Right to Work state such as NC. It would be very interesting however if say half (5,00) called in sick one day.
Ummmmmmm
Mr. Yamo, let me address a few of the issues you raise.
First, I am glad CMS is NOT holding this meeting uptown or in one of the urban schools. I have attended meetings in these areas and had my kids in some of these schools. I will not venture out to these areas anymore. These areas are not what they used to be even 10 years ago. I went to a set of meetings at Vance HS recently which I thought would be a safer location due to being in Research Park but i was mistaken. Several cars were broken into and several "shady" looking characters were just milling about.
Second, as for your pay being frozen, there are two parts to that one. One, I in a private sector job still have my pay frozen and my medical and other costs continue to rise. Additionally, I have ot pay for parking now uptown where once I enjoyed this as a seniority perk. All that has ended in my pocketbook. So why should not teachers and other government employees not have to endure the same thing. But i know, some government officals make sure they are not subject to the ills the rest of us have to suffer. The second part of this comes with your teachers' associations with state government. They are so in the pocket of Democrats, the Democrats can abuse them and get away with it. And as for your environment under Republicans, you are so in the pocket of democrats, you are on the short end of the stick for awhile.
Lastly, you say school is not a business. While I somewhat agree with you there, it is supposed to turn out "educated" students. Business leaders still grumble about the shortcomings of CMS graduates. We also saw where 1200 of the 1600 applicants to CPCC 2 years ago were required top take remedial courses before they could earn college credit. You may point to NCLB testing requirements. However you forget that NC started the ABC testing before NCLB came along. NCLB did not require more testing. It just required subgroup reporting, which NC ABC already did and put in a mechanism for failing school remediation. Taxpayers had to pay for extra tutoring for students in certain schools, which CMS never could fill all the available dollar volume, and then if that did not work, students could transfer out to other schools.
Public education in the US headed in a death spiral all due in my opinion is the ever increasing federal intervention. Gov Bev sold you teachers out for the all the federal money she could. Remember that. The public refuses to accept the fact the feds do horrible thing for the ethical person. For example, since Gov Bev took the federal loan to pay NC unemployment insurance but now, you can apply for a job, get hired and not report for your first day and draw unemployment insurance. The legal rebuttal employers now face does not allow them to submit evidence that the person is already working somewhere else.
Get the feds out of public education. Let some business, education, and civic leaders revamp public education without regards to diversity, you will have something.
Missouri, I work uptown and frequently visit "urban" schools. I've never found either setting scary. Not saying bad things can't happen, but I've never had a problem or felt threatened at any school, including those where I attend night meetings.
To the individual stating all CMS teachers are "Worthless". We are so much more than worthless. Doctor, Nurse, Psychiatrist, Mom, Dad, Mediator, oh yeah and a teacher.So worthless you say. You wouldn't last 30 minutes in the classroom without the teacher in their to hold your hand and help you SURVIVE!
Feb. 1 teachers wil be able to see their value added scores in McRel . The scores are based on any history of testing that teacher may have. 70% from their scores 30% from the schools scores. Staff that does not have scores from state tests will be value added scores based on OVERALL SCHOOL SCORES..... WOW that sounds fair.... What a joke. Standardized tests will be given to kindergarten students YEP A B C OR D to a 6 year old to measure the value of the teacher....... Give any 6 year 4 choices and they get confused let alone a test for content.... What a joke........meanwhile the COMMON CORE standards are grounded in the idea that Multiple choice tests can not be used to measure student knowledge..... WTF?
Here's just one example which brings to light the inherent difficulties with any so-called pay for performance plan: an administrator at my former school routinely issued devastating teacher evaluations to anyone who was not her "sister" or her "girl". Her primary goal, it seemed, was to drive out of the school (if not out of the profession entirely), any teacher who did not share her complexion.
At the same time she was doing this, she herself apparently did no other work whatsoever except to lock herself in her office to work on an advanced degree during school hours.
Who had the guts to call her out on this? Absolutely no one. Her race effectively insulated her from any consequence, and likely still does. I don't see any "courageous conversations" about race in this woman's future, only her now having the additional boon of a financial instrument with which to batter teachers who happen to be the wrong color.
Race biased expert?
I thought we got the "Klan" out of school along time ago. In the 60's the CMS black population was a minority and had inadequate funding.Today they are the majority and the Focus Schools receive 3x the funding. Everything has changed in favor of this race except the RESULTS.
Someone have the courage to ask why and stop trying to blame White teachers.
Buddy you dont have to worry anymore about firing me. I just got my CDL and will now DOUBLE my salary driving a truck.
Thanks to people like you and my administrator I wont have to waste several more years of my life on disrespected service to my community.
7:39, this is where it is all headed. This is why many are trying to get her effect on evaluations minimized. They know it is going on. They know who the culprits are. But just like in the days of Affirmative Action, they are untouchable.
Ann, as far as safety at these schools are concerned, I am all too well aware of the differences when I worked late hours at several of these in the 1990's and early 2000's and what I see now. I just know what to look for and to be on the defensive for. I'd advise you to watch out a little closer but I am sure the administration knows when you come on campus and usually it is times when meetings that include downtown personnel so security is usually pretty apparent to scare off these lowlifes. Can you imagine what they'd face if a reporter got attacked? Wow!
As a current CMS employee with 13 years of teaching in the classroom, Pay for Performance definitely creates anxiety. However as a teacher in a high poverty/high minority school, I have a better chance of making the performance goals since they are based on student growth. In my opinion, teachers in already high performing schools have the biggest challenge because it is hard to show growth when your scores are already 90% or above. Maybe all the teachers will begin flocking to low performing schools with the feeling of "you can only go up from here!"
Secondly, a quick comment on the grading scale. I teach in an elementary school and the grades A-D use a seven point scale 93-100 is an A, 86-92 is a B etc. An F has a 69 point grade scale...any score 0-69 is considered failing. My point of giving nothing below a 50 is based on a student being able to recover. If they make a few mistakes at the beginning of the quarter, a grade of a zero is very hard to recover from as opposed to a 50. They are both considered failing and result in an "F", but a 50 average might motivate a child to work toward a 70. Just my personal opinion working with elementary kids.
And finally, a funny story about student surveys. We were a pilot school for them last year. One of the questions was, "Does your teacher push you to do your best?" Almost all of the students replied, "No my teacher would never push me...she is nice to me and wouldn't want to hurt me!" Pushing to a 7 year old is a mean thing no matter how effective the teacher is!
Yamo - the first meeting was at East Meck last week. Why weren't you there? I was.
8:19 - funny thing: if a kid does his/her work then they shouldn't earn a score of zero, should they? Stop enabling those kids and make them work. Yes enabling...I get them in middle school and have to undo the harm you have done in your quest to help.
Missouri - be careful talking about which you do not fully understand in reference to teacher teachers organizations. Are school supposed to turn out "educated" students or provide the students with rich opportunities to learn and grow? If the student does not put in the time and effort to be successful that is on me? Yeah okay buddy.
As a former CMS teacher, I didn't like having my pay frozen for five years, but I understood the logic considering the economic climate. However, I became frustrated at doing more for the same pay. Since the pay freeze, school days were longer, work days were fewer and the increase in testing took away teaching time. For example, in the private sector, if you're required to receive training on a new product from a vendor, and you no longer get paid for it, you would object to it.
All of the reforms being pushed today have no scientific basis. It is "research" produced by think tanks by non-educators financed by a handful of "philanthropists" attempting to cash in on federal education funding. A poster said there are plenty of teachers represented on this blog, but that's all we have; we don't have the power, time and money to compete with Gates and Broad.
Regarding NCLB, it required annual testing among other things (not just subgroup reporting). Even though NC already EOGs in place, it created a climate of accountability using poor assessments such as multiple choice tests. NCLB is based on a fraud (google the "Texas Miracle") and should have never been implemented.
Sorry Anonymous about not going to the E. Meck mtg., I was working the parking lot from 3:30-8 pm on the two coldest nights of the winter without pay while our school hosted a basketball tourney. As for Missouri, since you seem to know me well with all the "yous" & such, I have one question: are you a teacher or an administrator?
In addition Missouri, I did not mention pay being frozen. But, if you want to discuss the issue, how about mentioning the State legislature has violated past and present State law that constructs the teacher pay scale in steps based on years of service and educational attainment. Sure, no one expects a "raise", but we have the right to our steps. I would suggest not painting broad strokes of viewpoints on all of us teachers.
Is NC still going ahead with the plan to rank all public schools from A - F this year?
I'm trying to imagine NC ranking it's public universities from A - F. Or, ranking all NC university education departments from A - F. Maybe NC should rank college education professors from A - F and pay each on a P-f-P scale? Which NC colleges and universities produce the best teachers (public and private)? Which colleges and universities have the highest Praxis 2 exam pass rates? Which NC colleges and universities are the most effective at producing teachers able to close the achievement gap? How will TFA teachers be paid on a P-f-P scale? What happens if a teacher produces remarkable gains one year, is transferred, and isn't as effective the following year at a different school?
Alicia
On the page about the focus groups (http://www.cms.k12.nc.us/News/Pages/Focusgroupswilladdresscompensationdesign.aspx) it talks about "Battelle for Kids". This group sent out a survey to CMS teachers before/over Winter Break. It was about "strategic compensation." The survey questions were very leading. I would suspect that the results from the questions "show" that CMS teachers "support" strategic compensation when they in fact DO NOT. Especially since they haven't been told what it will exactly look like!
8:43, you are right, it is not on you these days. Our society/federal government has taught these kids not to worry about anything. There is no right or wrong. The only unethical people and immoral people are those that live to some code that naturally enables them to be successful but it is immoral for them to impose that code on you.
If you've never followed my posting before, you know one of my favorites is "you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink", and an African proverb "he who is carried on another's back does not appreciate how far off the town is".
As for NCLB, while most people want to lay all the heap on GWB and Ron Page, Teddy Kennedy had a heavy hand in it. His parts about subgroup reporting and remediation efforts at failing schools, including closing them, came from him so the Democrats would be on board with passing it.
Teachers unions hate pay for performance. The unions want a continuation.of tenure and job security that is unheard of in other sectors of the economy. The CMS board of education is dominated by retired union members and the former local union boss herself. Heath knows who writes his pay checks and approves his decisions and there is no way he will let pay for performance happen unless it is mandated at the state level. Sure CMS will continue to pay lip service to this idea as it has for several years now. But it's not going to happen without a state mandate.
Post a Comment