Friday, August 2, 2013

Master's degree pay: Nasty surprise ahead?

We know the N.C. legislature has eliminated extra pay for teachers who earn advanced degrees after 2014.  But like so many things coming out of this summer's rapid-fire session,  details are still being sorted out.

It's not even clear what the deadline is for completing a master's degree to qualify for the 10 percent pay hike that's now part of state's teacher pay scale.  The state budget bill says teachers are grandfathered into the old pay scale if they earned the salary supplement  "prior to the 2014-15 school year."  Currently,  the deadline for earning master's pay in 2013-14 is April 1,  2014.

But Tom Tomberlin,  a human-resources official with the N.C. Department of Public Instruction,  said today that his department will ask the state Board of Education to consider pushing that back "to accommodate those teachers finishing their masters in the spring of 2014."

The bigger question,  Tomberlin says,  is what happens after 2014,  when everyone converts to one pay scale.  Teachers who are grandfathered into the current master's scale have been assured their pay won't be cut,  he said,  but it's possible they'd be frozen in coming years until their pay comes in line with the new scale. For instance,  a teacher with 10 years' experience and a master's degree made $40,820 on the 2012-13 state scale  (many local districts supplement state pay),  compared with $37,110 for a teacher with only a bachelor's.  The bachelor's scale doesn't hit that level until Year 17.

 "We don't know the answer to that,"  Tomberlin said.  "It's a point we've got to get clarity on from the legislators."

Meanwhile,  teachers in grad school and the universities that serve them are scrambling to figure out how to meet the new deadline  (whatever it turns out to be).  One teacher who had been enrolled in UNC Charlotte's graduate program forwarded an email sent Friday by Dean Ellen McIntyre.  The College of Education is  "strategizing to find ways to help as many of you as possible complete your programs with integrity by December 2013," the email says, adding that more information will arrive in the coming week.

Teachers are resorting to dark humor to cope with what Annie McCanless,  a veteran teacher at Providence High,  dubs "the summer of misery for education in North Carolina."  Shortly after the budget passed last week,  she sent me her Ten Reasons Why Teachers Don't Need an Advanced Degree in North Carolina.  Among them:  "If teachers get an advanced degree they will leave NC so they can work in a state that rewards the educational achievement,"  "Paying all teachers the same salary simplifies the salary charts"  and  "Teachers don’t need the knowledge and skills learned in an advanced degree. All they needed to know they learned in kindergarten."

There's one bright spot for teachers:  Legislators didn't touch the 12 percent supplement for those who have earned National Board Certification.  "I think  'for now'  is the operative word,"  cautioned Tomberlin.

100 comments:

Anonymous said...

It really is crazy. I have a Master in Library Science. That is required to be a media specialist in the state. Does that compute with you??

Anonymous said...

More of the national embarrassment that this legislature has created in NC. So it's a bad thing to know stuff? Clearly, what these idiots would like to see in our public classrooms are either common-sense babysitters or businessmen with "real world experience" whatever the hell that is. For all of you who voted for these "people," you will absolutely get what you pay for in the coming years. Ever heard of Mississippi?

Anonymous said...

You mean teachers are more than glorified babysitters?

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, Grad school is like CMS - there are those that go to learn and improve their lives - and tehre are those that go just to say they went. A Masters level degree proves nothing. (see Velma Leake's Ph.D) The proof is in the classroom. PROVE you have risen above the minimum and that you deserve the pay. Don't just expect a payraise 'cuz the feds paid for you to go to some more classes.

Anonymous said...

I've been wanting to get National Board certified anyway, but am concerned about whether I'd be paid for having both a Master's AND National Board certification when all of this is over, or would I get a 2% raise (the difference between getting a Master's and getting NBTS).

Anonymous said...

I agree with the previous comment. Master degrees prove nothing. Does it give you the ability to be a better teacher to the students? Or do all these teachers just have their hands out for more money? Guess what? If you want to make decent money, don't become a public teacher!

Anonymous said...

I agree - a Master's degree does not prove you are a better teacher. Many, many, people that have completed a Master's degree are still functionally unable to teach effectively. The proof IS IN THE CLASSROOM.

Anonymous said...

I agree that a degree does not make a better teacher. I would also add that a National Board Certified Teacher does not make a better teacher. I have met too many that are average at best.

Anonymous said...

I can't speak for all master's degrees, but many of us who have them are in positions that require master's degrees. It is knowledge you would ONLY have through the additional study.

Anonymous said...

I am thrilled with what North Carolina is doing for teachers. Paying them what they deserve. If these public teachers want to make big money, move to another state! Taxes are reasonable here. I am from a state where taxes are through the roof to pay for teacher salaries. Guess what? The teachers there are just as bad. Only difference is those teachers make double the amount than here.

Anonymous said...

37-40K for being a teacher in NC?

No thanks, I am going to college in the Fall and I will NOT be majoring in Education. My teachers were great, but apparently, those on this board think teachers deserve the low pay they get. This is why pretty much no one in my class is going into education.

With the debt YOU ALL left us, we wouldn't be able to pay the debt YOU left US on a teachers salary.

Anonymous said...

The very people who criticize public teachers on this site are the very idiots who needed public education the most! Next: Let's get rid of public libraries and pay vouchers to those who buy books off the internet. "North Carolina, land of the glorified idiot"

Anonymous said...

5:16 reflects the will of the state right now. I was a teacher in NC and did just as s/he suggests. It sounds good on paper...get out of here you lazy bums. But, sadly, the lazy ones won't leave. They are too lazy. And the hard working ones won't come, why would they? So NC will get what it is asking for: a shortage of teachers, notably hard working, capable ones. This is the closest thing to a free market you will see in public education. Let the will of the voters play out. Teachers, my advice is get out. Go do something else if you can't leave or move to a state where public education is valued. Sitting around waiting for things to improve is not going to work.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I see why Republicans have only been in charge three times in this state's history.

Anonymous said...

You'd hope our best & brightest would be teaching our children. But what smart person would pay for 4 years of college so they can make $40,000 a year after 10 years of service?

Anonymous said...

I moved here from Mississippi about two years ago. The people of North Carolina absolutely make my state seem like the most progressive place in the world when it comes to public education. "No more jokes about Mississippi, seems North Carolina has put itself into the #1 position to be made fun of."

Anonymous said...

Those who cannot do, end up becoming teachers. Plain and simple. If you want to go to college and major in education, you might as well declare you are a loser and have no common sense.

Anonymous said...

I dare one of you who disparage teachers to volunteer in the classroom. Come on big mouths, show us what you've got other than your ignorance.

Anonymous said...

The teachers I know talk bad about students and think it is hilarious. They constantly complain about them and talk about all the bad things they would like to do to them. Teachers deserve raises right?

Anonymous said...

Teachers: don't respond to the bait. Don't argue your worth. Bankers don't argue they are worth more. Salesmen don't either. They get paid what their employer feels is appropriate. If they dont like it, they find work elsewhere. Teachers should not engage in the debate about their worth. The PEOPLE of NC have voted for this, they have stated, through their votes, that they value your work where the salaries are now. Stop arguing, there is still a market. Walk away. If its truly not worth the pay, then move on. Stop complaining about it and do something about it. ONLY then will the public recognize your value.

Anonymous said...

5:49, ever heard of blowing off steam? Have you ever complained about a boss, co-worker, someone who annoyed you for some reason?
I bet most of those teachers then went back into the classroom and still gave their students 150%

Anonymous said...

And the sad thing is that you can make $20K more in SC.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the previous comment. North Carolina teachers should stop arguing their worth because the majority are worthless. Move on. Move to a new state. Move to Mississippi! See you later!

Anonymous said...

Seriously, I graduated 7th in my high school class of 300 students, received a full scholarship to a private college, graduated with honors, and received my masters and national board certification. I could've done ANYTHING, but I have the heart of a teacher. It is my calling. Shame on you for perpetuating a stereotype that is completely false.

Anonymous said...

Ann spends a lot more time talking to teachers than she does thinking about the archaic nature of the teacher pay system or the tenure system. Ann also relies on teachers to give her story tips. This why she is so sympathetic to issues like the masters degree changes.

Aubrey Moore said...

Once had a student ask me who was going to come up to them on the street and ask about the quadratic equation. My reply to her was that if her ambition in life was to stand on a street corner and wait for a proposal, she was wasting her time in my class. I see that a lot of you wasted your class time and failed to hone your wise retort ambitions. So now you troll and write out elementary school, little boy retorts. LOSERS!!!!

Unknown said...

People don't realize there was a little known piece of legislation that was also passed by our conservative state government. We changed our motto displayed on our license plates. Now they will read 'North Carolina: The Stoopider-est State'


Wiley Coyote said...

An example of being a real live contradiction in terms...

"little boy retorts. LOSERS!!!!

Anonymous said...

39We have an idiotic governor that makes well over 100k per year to do absolutely nothing and everyone is fine with that. Teachers deserve much more. Those individuals that want to bash teachers for wanting more pay are probably the same ones that have a sit at home spouse and still send there kids off to school to have some TEACHER teach them things that the sit at home parent can not. Why don't they keep their kid at home and teach them and see how far their kid makes it. Not to put a damper on home schooled kids, but it is these so called ADULTS, making these stupid commennts on one of the HARDEST professions out there is really dissappointing

Anonymous said...

More funny stuff. COMICAL. So let me get this straight a guy who made 95,790.00 for CMS last year (criminal because HR simply has "officials" who do god knows what) can't figure out the wording in a piece of legislation in his own field of expertise, so he is going to ask a legislators for clarity??? Are these the same legislators that ram rodded last minute bills to the tune of 50,000.00 a day for 2 months when they had 10 months to get it done?? That's rich...

Anonymous said...

It is just sad to see the comments insulting teachers nonstop. I have so many good memories of many of the teachers that taught me. The people making these nasty comments are just shameful.
These are the people responsible for teaching the next generation and our children's futures depend on them ...and they don't have our support. Very sad.

Anonymous said...

Teachers from states that have a modicum of respect for your profession, stay away from this state. NC's leaders in state government don't get it that a quality education doesn't come cheap, so let them try ignorance for a while. They will see that it takes a lot more than tax incentives to bring companies here. When good teachers leave the state or retire with average replacements, the poor labor pool NC's schools produce will scare companies away.

Anonymous said...

I saw on Facebook where McDonalds managers make more than teachers...the teachers are all mad at such a thing. I suggest they go get a job at McDonald's and find out what work really is. In the real world we work at least 50 weeks a year. Many (including those high paid McDonald's managers) work weekends and holidays. Meanwhile these whiners that teach are off June and July (yeah I went there)...off two weeks at Christmas and another week in the spring...plus no weekends and no holidays. GET A LIFE AND SHUT UP!

Yamo said...

some of you that insult us teachers are lucky this is an anonymous forum. First of all, you wouldn't come to my class or see me on the street and say these things. Second, society needs us to pick up where some of you parents dropped the ball. Because of your lack of parenting, your children cannot read, think, and write higher than coloring book level. Finally, none of you could do the job we do. We wear so many hats and have to manage so much, most people couldn't hang. Virtually every teacher I have worked with in 11 years has been effective and skilled with great intention and passion. Teachers are a special breed of person to be given the world children and be in charge of their growth. Too much accountability has been thrust upon teachers who are already held to ever increasing and exemplary standards. The problem is the students and parents are not held accountable. I refuse to babysit your child. They will learn new skills whether you taught them to know better or not. Be careful who you are insulting...you may just get caught on the street one day alone with your meager intellect when...

Anonymous said...

To the teachers who are still in the classrooms in NC: you deserve MORE than teaching in a state that continues to throw crap at you EVERY DAY!! Move to OTHER countries, where students will RESPECT you and your work, where you will ENJOY beeing in the classroom, where you will make K50 a year TAX FREE and will have FREE HOUSING, will work 20 hours a week (instead of 60) and WILL HAVE A LIFE! QUATAR, DUBAI, SOUTH KOREA are countries that will VALUE YOU and your work!! NC doesn't deserve to have you in their classes!!

Anonymous said...

Man, you should have studied when you were in school. I think your hatred is born of shame. Well, at least Jesus loves you.

Anonymous said...

Pay the Teachers and bring back their benefits !


COMMON GOAL for a COMMON CORE

Anonymous said...

You will continue to receive nothing but disrespect because you are "IN IT FOR THE CHILDREN".

You cannot eat, pay the mortgage or put your kids in college on intrinsic rewards.

Most people work for MONEY and a SALARY.

If you dont like it then organize and STRIKE. Otherwise shut up and sit down.

Anonymous said...

I just became a democrat!

Teacher need a raise after five years.

The Freeholder said...

Why is it that teachers think it's their God-given right to a guarantee of more money if they get an advanced degree? Those of us in the real world have no such guarantee--we get our advanced degrees and then get to look for a position where there is a reward for them.

Seems to me the teachers are about as spoiled as the students. And trust me, working in higher ed, I get to see the results of our public schools "efforts" first hand.

Anonymous said...

If only you understood what it meant to be a teacher. I hope that you have a chance to volunteer in a classroom one day to see what it is really like before you go spouting off at the mouth. During my " summer" off I spent three weeks of it at professional development, learning how to be a better teacher. I will be spending three more days at another professional development opportunity before school starts back. I have also wrote lesson plans for the year, shopped for back to school supplies for my classroom, and will be going in to school BEFORE our required days to get my classroom ready. Most weeks I work over 60 hours a week, including weekend. If you have not been or personally known a teacher, please become informed before you start bashing our profession. Teaching is what leads to all other jobs. There aren't any other jobs that are publicly bashed like teachers. Spend a day in our shoes and tell me how easy it is.

Anonymous said...

One of the insidious side effects of frozen salary is lower retirement benefits.
Oh, wait, that will get axed or reduced the next legislative session. They ran out of time this year.
I am sure Ann never intended this blog to bring all the teacher haters out of the woodwork. But it is an open forum. It certainly does show the true colors of the citizens here who support Repugs.
To those of you who don’t need intrinsic rewards in your life, go spend your hard earned money on stuff, toys, things, cars, houses, vacations, golf memberships, fishing gear, whatever. I hope you love your jobs, dollars, hope it gives you great spiritual satisfaction. I bet you donate nada time and money to anything. Continue to throw your unkind arrows and darts at teachers if it makes you feel good.
Oh wait, you are the same folks who go to church every Sunday and claim you are Christians.

Anonymous said...

Help me out here: What is there in NC education that will attract the best and brightest?

As an aside, are all the colleges in the State going to dismantle their master in education programs? Their enrollment numbers are certain to decrease!



Mikki Burgess said...

Interesting how few people are willing to reveal themselves, wading in as parrots and uninformed fools. NC has for a long time placed the burden of the state's problems on the backs and in the pockets of teachers -- democratic or republican controlled house makes no difference! World class cities in North Carolina? That's a laugh, when education is in the toilet!

Anonymous said...

To the person who wrote, "If you dont like it then organize and STRIKE. Otherwise shut up and sit down."

It is against the law for teachers to strike in NC to strike. Where have you been...

Anonymous said...

I can see by these comments that a large number of ignorant rednecks are going to vote to re-elect these guys. That is, of course, if they are still allowed to vote.

Anonymous said...

It baffles me how people can bash teachers like this. I wonder how many of the people posting received a public education and if they they think they are so superior and more intelligent than teachers... How they got to be that way without teachers.
I am grateful for the vast majority of my teachers. Several of them I think about all the time when I think about how they treated me like I was their one and only favorite student when they really had 35 other kids they made feel the same way every day.
It perplexes me how anyone could get on the internet and bash the people in a profession that not only helped them learn and get a job, but are also responsible for the next generation of our workforce which increasingly faces international competition.
People can disagree on the pay and benefits, but it is just self destructive as a society to insult teachers, vilify them, call them lazy and stupid, or tell them to get real work. It is real work and your parents should have raised you with better values and a better perspective of the basic functions required for a society to thrive. i.e education.

Anonymous said...

Not bashing teachers but you get what 40k for a masters degree. Work 38 weeks that works out to a normal job 50 week work year salary of $55k not nearly as bad as 40k maybe work MORE like normal people.

Anonymous said...

Um... You aren't bashing teachers but you are telling them to "work MORE like normal people."
So teachers aren't normal and can control the fact that the state legislature controls when they work.
Additionally there is a significant proportion of teachers who work 60 hours a week during the school year and in the summer (without pay).

Anonymous said...

I think everyone is missing the point. We encourage students and prepare them for college, saying "all students should/will go to College"; however, we say getting a masters is not important. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture? Then we have idiots, yes idiots, bash our educators. WOW, what a society we live in. I do agree though, get to a state that values education or move to the private sector so you can leave at 5 M-F, 2-4 weeks vacation to start, leave your work at work, and NO: parent calls, babysitting, being mommy/daddy, counselor, phychologist, doctor, or educator to make all other jobs possible.

Anonymous said...

I am one of those "Normal" people who works as a Nurse for 20 years and I have been teaching in a public high school for 5 years. I educate students intereted in going into the medical profession & train CNA students. I took a 60% pay cut because the schedule allowed me to be more present in my childs life & education. I see both sides. Those of you who have no clue should spend just one week doing exactly what a teacher does to prepare for her/his classes. We work well past the dismissal bell, weekends, holidays & for no extra money. Most teachers attend conference's in the summer months to improve their skills on their own dime or it may be required for their job but still foot the bill. I love what I do, shaping young minds and sparking passion for their future careers but this will have to be my last year because I have a daughter about to go to college and will not afford that on this curent salary even though I have also worked all previous 5 summers in a healthcare setting to make ends meet. This summer my PT job working 2 to 3 days a week equals the monthly salary I get from the school. The teachers you speak of on this board that complain, only work 10 months, are horrible in their classrooms will be the only ones left because the ones with passion and drive and excellence in the classroom will leave for other states and other professions. Then where will NC be?
Sincerely,
Heartsick RN, BSN

Anonymous said...

I taught for 10 years in FL and starting my 7th year here in a few weeks. So, 17 years and earning 52k is not so bad. I chose NC because it offers health coverage at retirement whereas FL does not. This will be huge when I can retire. I also earned my Master's degree through a program sponsored by the District and it cost me nothing, except time and effort. It has helped me be a better teacher and prepare for an administrative job down the line.

I am single, no kids, etc so that does help. I own my house, (very small mortgage since I put 30% down) my car is paid off and I have no student loans. My point is, teachers can have a great life and live very well if you use the same skills we teach each day. I love what I do each day and there are stressful days, but it certainly does not seem like work. Because I chose a career I love my whole life is enriched. I too, could have chosen any career, but I had no interest in anything else.

So here I sit, spending three weeks in south FL relaxing at the pool, beach, and golf course. And yes, I also enjoy my week at Thanksgiving, 2 weeks at Christmas, and 1 week here at Easter. What a great life as a teacher even in NC.

During the school year, yes I work 50 hour weeks with no breaks or lunch and spend a few dollars here and there as needed for my students. But I take advantage of my time off, manage my money, and live a great life. We all make choices and mine to be a teacher has been the best choice as a career, it was my calling. It is much better doing what you love versus doing a job because it may pay a little or a lot more.

So, NC may be the worst place to teach as many might say, but my story is a little brighter. It can be wonderful, if you choose to make the best of it, plan well, and ignore silly comments from people who have no idea what being a teacher really means or what the job entails. Well, off to the beach, I only have 16 days left of summer!

Anonymous said...

George W. Bush had a masters degree (MBA), look where that got us!

Anonymous said...

Teachers will be obsolete soon enough. They are pushing the "Bring your own Teacher", I mean "Technology" (BYOT) program at every school. These little devices will be occupying our little dears every hour of the day, no more discipline problems and the kids will be more engaged with a screen in front of them presenting information all day long. No more need for a trained teacher in the classroom, just a classroom facilitator or volunteer. This is a win-win for the state of NC.

Anonymous said...

It is obvious from several of these comments why NC has the Honey Boo Boo complex. Wake up people and educate yourself. It is not about teacher salaries, it is about the decline of education in our state. When something is de-valued, such as NC education, the fallout is going to be land/property value drops, lack of new businesses coming to our state and a general decline in economy. Who would willing relocate to a state that is ranked in the bottom five of the nation? As a business owner, I am appalled at the lack of concern from the general public regarding this bill. In two years we will all be paying the price, wait...the wealthy will have the loopholes provided in the other bills passed this session. I would love to hire a college educated, Master's degree candidate for 55K...what planet are you from and how many employees have you hired in the past ten years? Our bottom line is $75K for an advanced degree. And yes, it does mean something to the private sector as well, it means that person has initiative, drive and wants to better themselves. I look for that in an employee, not one who plods along and is satisfied with being told what to do and what to think. As a side note, I am a conservative Republican. This is not a party issue, it is a preserve our state against politicians who are benefiting from these bills issue. Follow the money and see the raises and appointments that McCrory and Tillis handed out...yes to their top campaign contributors. If NC is trying to balance the budget, should these $125,000 per year employees receive an 8% increase?

Anonymous said...

Yeah....but George Bush did not have to earn his MBA. The Gov. is not a bright person. That explains his decisions when it comes to education
and how he feels about teachers.

Sarah Harlow said...

I think the hardest part is feeling like we as teachers, can't "win". They locked our pay scale years ago so teachers don't get to move up the scale as they have more experience. First year teachers and 5th year teachers could be making the same. The only way to get a raise was to get your masters or board certification. So a lot of teachers did that. Now they are taking that away but not bringing teachers up to where they should be if the pay scale was followed.

I don't know of other jobs where stellar performance reviews and fabulous work for 5 or more years in a row mean that you will take a 10% pay cut, we will dock your pay 250$, and we will raise your insurace rates 20% over 3 years.

That...is what upsets us.

Wiley Coyote said...

12:37

My wife manages the office and marketing of her company and has been cut back to four days per week twice in the past 4 years. The first time it lasted for over two years and they cut her back again three months ago.

Her 401K match ended and health insurance is so high she is on mine, which has also gone up every year under Obama.

Many private sector companies are doing the same thing, freezing wages and making cuts, so it isn't just happening to government employees.

Anonymous said...

ANON 9:01


You moron, anyone can STRIKE !

CMS cannot find teachers to fill the vacancies they have now. How do you think they will be able to fill the positions of 9,000 teachers who STRIKE with their absense?

Anonymous said...

A previous Mecklenburg School Superintendant once said and I quote, "We don't need better teachers, we need better students." And these students need better parents. I believe we could double teachers salaries and it would not change the outcome of what we are getting from our schools due to the disrespect that students and parents show to teachers.

Anonymous said...

Anon. 1:37, I was tempted to call you the Moron, but you're not even there yet.

Yes, anyone can strike, or do anything else for that matter. The point is, North Carolina is a Right to Work State, which means going on strike will do nothing to advance their cause, and teachers who "strike" will probably lose their jobs since they could be replaced.

http://www.nrtw.org/c/ncrtwlaw.htm

See NCGS 95-79

Any moron could figure out that if you have bills to pay, a low paying job is better than no job at all.

Apparently you were also absent for the lessons on manners, compassion, and tact.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, and 1:37 will probably get one of their jobs!

Anonymous said...

I would encourage anyone considering a degree in education to please rethink your career path. You will swamped every year with new techniques and methods as the powers that be in Raleigh keep going back to reinvent the wheel. You will be over worked and under appreciated. You will be force into living hand to mouth because you won't be able to afford to feed your family and have the bare essentials that you need to survive. Public education in North Carolina is a tragedy. The future looks even more bleak.

Anonymous said...

I think much of the animosity teachers are feeling is the result of a backlash against school board policies that direct a huge per cent of education funding toward closing the "achievement gap" with little results to show for it. People are angry about the lack of discipline in the classroom, disproportionately large classes in suburban schools, and all the hype given to closing that gap by media of outlets such as the CO as well as local politicians. Unfortunately the teachers are being thrown out with the proverbial bath water. There is also the belief that many masters degrees received by those in education have little value, such as those obtained on line or through for-profit institutions such as the University of Phoenix. The CO's big spread on Foxxy's mom getting a doctorate from the University of Phoenix did not help the cause, either.
The upcoming bond vote ought to prove interesting.

Anonymous said...

Teachers please consider moving into the corporate environment. If North Carolina isn't willing to recognize your worth simply resign your position and look for other work. You deserve much more than North Carolina is willing to give you! Wash your hands of public education and never look back. There is a better life waiting!

Anonymous said...

Very true.......my friend is a shop teacher with a masters.......that doesn't compute to this 68 yr old mind.

Anonymous said...

I don't like to see people bash teachers. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN A TEACHER? WHEN YOU RIDICULE ALL TEACHERS, IT MAKES YOU SOUND LIKE A FOOL.

Despite all this I haven't got the foggiest idea why teachers were getting paid more for masters degrees. It stinks for those who got the degrees that they might lose their salary bumps. But we all know it never made any sense to give automatic salary increases to these teachers in the first place. It also never made sense to give teachers tenure.

Anonymous said...

First, if you think a teacher is nothing more than a glorified babysitter, then we expect to be compensated accordingly. At the rate babysitters are paid, most teachers would make over $100,000. That said, all of the stupidity coming out of TeaPublican run state houses is doing is discouraging QUALITY people from going into teaching. I guess in this way, the TeaPubs can justify the destruction of the public school system for their own ends and profits.

Wiley Coyote said...

2:19

Look at the flip side of the argument.

Yes, teachers can strike and yes they could be fired for doing so under the laws of the state.

However, if 50,000 teachers were to "strike" or have a sick-out, the state cannot replace 50,000 teachers.

Do you believe 50,000 teachers could be readily replaced? If so, what does that say about the argument of wages, tenure and benefits, that there are 50,000 OTHER teachers out there willing to do the job under the same conditions?

Anonymous said...

It says that we have been stomped on and belittled so much that there is NO WAY you could come even close to getting all of us to "strike" at one time for fear of not having a way to feed our families.

No, I don't think there are 50,000 OTHER teachers out there, but many believe the legislature so loathes current teachers that yes, they would just be crazy enough to put ANYONE in those teaching positions. And can you guarantee there are 50,000 OTHER jobs for us to go to when they do?

Anonymous said...

For every person bashing teachers, I BEG you to spend a week, no a day in a classroom doing all of the work that I do in one day. It is NOT a 9-5 job, it's not only when the students are in class. I am so sick of being denigrated because I chose the path that I did. I love my job, that's why I do it. I get that. But as someone else also stated, it's one of our responsibilities to push children to go as far as they can go - but just don't do it in NC. I've been teaching for twenty years and have held part-time jobs for most of them. Looks like I'm going to have to do it again. I wonder what would happen if all teachers stopped working past the bell and stopped coming in early, didn't take anything home at the end of the day or on weekends, quit working on committees... And why am I signing this as anonymous? Because there is retribution for speaking out, that's why. No union, remember?

Anonymous said...

I pay less for health insurance that is just as comprehensive than I did 5 years ago when Obama took office, what a jerk he is for pushing Obamacare.

No one's mentioned that teachers get less than 30 minutes to eat and can only use the bathroom at certain times of the day, in many cases that's the beginning or end of the school day. Students demean teachers, throw things at them, hit them and steal from them and teachers are presumed guilty until proven innocent if they turn the student in to the principal.

You'd sue your employer under OHSA rules if they treated you like that.

Wiley Coyote said...

3:51

It is not my job as your tax paying boss to find you another job.

Either you live with the changes, put people in office who will make the kinds of changes you want or find another job.

Teachers started getting screwed under DEMOCRATS by freezing salaries and raiding the Education Lottery - twice - before Republicans took over.

Under this legislature, they have exacerbated the problem.

I believe the current tenure-type structure is the best solution until public education get's out of the toilet.

I believe the legislature could have found money to start giving back what teachers lost.

I believe that if you attain a higher degree in your profession then you should be compensated for it- provided you show that extra knowledge is a benefit to the company.

Anonymous said...

All teachers should go on strike

Anonymous said...

When mccrory signed the 2 percent income tax decrease, this was like giving teachers a raise. If you don't like change, nominate a candidate in 2016 who can run on a platform of restoring tenure, restoring pay raises for advanced degrees, and increased income taxes for everyone. Now if you can just turn this platform into a catchy slogan, the democrats may win back the governor's office. Halt education reform in its tracks in 2016.

Anonymous said...

Hell is other people's children.

Texas girl said...

10:44 You are right on in regards to Byot. Why the big push, especially in the elementary schools, for students to bring in their own technology? Are parents really buying this? It is mainly going to be used as a classroom management tool, while there are no guarantees that more learning will actually be taking place in the schoolhouse. This is just CMS jumping on the next bandwagon and teachers buying into it because it makes their jobs easier.

The best "device" is a motivated, engaging teacher. Unfortunately I think you're right, good teachers are on the way out. Too expensive I presume.

Anonymous said...

It is rather frustrating to read about people bashing teachers. I do enjoy what I do as a teacher, but it is not an easy job. Every year, more requirements are added to the job description, but less resources, less planning time, and less pay for more work are given. In the summer, I work three jobs so that my yearly savings is not depleted, and during the school year, I still hold a part-time job for a few evenings a week and on Saturday and Sunday. I come to school early and stay late. That's just part of the job, but it would be nice to feel appreciated or to valued for the work that we do. As a full-time employee just a few years out of college, I think now there is no such as the American Dream, as all professions seem to be facing higher expectations with less. But at least many of those professions have a substantial salary to raise a family on.

Anonymous said...

NONE of you have mentioned how the National Board's pay supplement was decreased 2 years ago from 12% to 10%. I am surprised the state didn't take away the entire supplement this year.

As for the argument that in the next year or two the master's degree supplement will be eliminated so that teachers must rise to the yearly level of experience on the pay scale - that is downright evil.

Say goodbye to me - a National Board Certified, Master's Degree Special Ed Teacher with a Bachelor's in Elementary Ed and a certification in Language Arts 6-8.

Every year for the past 5 years, I have consistently raised my special education student's scores by 6% or more on the EOGs- in 2010-2011, I co-taught in the two classrooms in the county that had the GREATEST % increase in student test scores in the entire county.

The minute I find a better job in SC or other state that meets my family's needs, I am gone.

Happy now?

Anonymous said...

Wiley, you are not my boss. My principal, the superintendent, and the school board are. I pay taxes too.

I never said it was your job to find jobs for teachers. I was simply making the point that if we are dismissed for going "on strike" there will probably not be jobs for 50,000 of us. Your argument looks good on paper, but as I said, it's very doubtful that you could actually get everyone to stay home for a day. Even if you could, it would take more than a day to get anyone's attention.

And I think you meant to say "gets."

Wiley Coyote said...

11:08

Interesting that you say your principal, superintendent and the BOE are your bosses, but I didn't see you railing against them in your comment. Only the legislature.

As a teacher, the government (including the BOE) is your boss and they work for the taxpayers. So yes, you ultimately work for the taxpayers as well.

Anonymous said...

Teachers do not give up your career status for $500. Career status is a property right once attained. Sue them! Let's make it a class action suit!
What we also need to do is change the legislature and the governor in 2014 and 2016. You voted them in now vote them out.Repealing of these laws can happen! It is time to fight back!

Anonymous said...

Money that could have been used for Masters Pay was set aside for vouchers. Those "opportunity scholarships" are a joke. Special needs and poor students are being used to open the door to vouchers for others who want to stop supporting public schools through tax dollars. $4200 a year does not begin to pay for a high end private school.
So they take the money out of the public school then send the children back to these schools because the private schools do not have the resources in place to provide the services they. The money never comes back with the child.
Charter schools are already doing this quite well. Stop using poor, black and Hispanic children as shields to enact this shameful legislation. We all know the legislature does not care about them, either, or especially? Mr. Allison, you ought to be ashamed of yourself, your forefathers are turning in their graves. You dishonor their memory. Show us your money trail!

Read more here: http://obsyourschools.blogspot.com/2013/08/making-sense-of-education-whirlwind.html#storylink=cpy

Anonymous said...

The folk paying the big bucks to send their children to private school are not going to tolerate, for long, those "bringing the vouchers". The private schools that would charge 2100 per semester are pitiful.
Teachers, we are at war. You must fight back for the children that you know will suffer because of these policies. You must fight back because of the pain you are in. Fight Back and you will win! As you ought to see now, doing nothing has only allowed them to make it worse!

Read more here: http://obsyourschools.blogspot.com/2013/08/making-sense-of-education-whirlwind.html#storylink=cpy

Anonymous said...

Teaching will become easier and easier as the students and teachers become more dependent on technology and computers in the classroom.

Anonymous said...

So Tomberlin's now got a gig with DPI, but still doesn't have any answers? Remember when we questioned him a couple of years ago about value-added rankings and he and his buddy Baxter could only say, "I don't know"?

Anonymous said...

Glad to see a few comments on this blog about the push for expanding technology in the classroom. Good insight from the NY Times article below.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/technology/at-waldorf-school-in-silicon-valley-technology-can-wait.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

Bobby McGee said...

Yes, teachers will become obsolete as stated by an earlier poster, Or just glorified babysitters once technology consumes the classrooms. We will only need tech support services at each school to assist students in navigating their apps and such. That's one way to save money on teacher's salaries.

The Sub said...

I am a substitute teacher for CMS. I enjoy working part time and interacting with the students. I feel compelled to agree with some of the comments about the technology in schools. It is a distraction for most students, not a benefit. Just look at what happened at Community House Middle school this past year. CMS needs to rethink the entire BYOT program.

Anonymous said...

What kills me is when people say teachers received a raise last year..Actually we did, but the DOE added five days to our work year. So when calculated this "raise" ended up being $0.26. Wowzers! Don't spend that all in one place.

Anonymous said...

What happened at Community House Middle?

Ann Doss Helms said...

The issue at Community House was kids misusing technology at home. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/06/21/4121529/middle-school-sexting-sparks-lessons.html

Anonymous said...

To Ann Doss Helms, you are completely wrong about the Community House situation. I have children there. Personal tech devices were misused at home AND at school throughout the year. Finally at the end of the school year something was done about it on the school side of it. It is a constant distraction for the students and the students are sharing inappropriate material at school, during instructional time. Yes, inappropriate photos were taken by the students during the school day, at school! Students can't handle the power of these tech devices, at school or at home. Why is the school district now encouraging parents to buy these devices for their children to be used at school? Is this to offset the fact that class sizes are too big at CHMS and there aren't enough teachers? We just won't do it.

Anonymous said...

from the Principal/CHMS Courier 5/3/13 to parents and students "Continual abuse of privilege with the devices (tweeting, texting, taking and posting pictures...all during the school day), we need to focus on academics and proper character."

CMS parents couldn't agree more, But CMS will continue to allow these devices at school. Now the teachers have to manage 30+ devices in the classroom. Who has time to teach anymore? And who needs a Masters degree for that?

Anonymous said...

So many of you have commented that you do not understand why a teacher with an advanced degree are paid more: You have a rash all over your body. You go to your doctor and she gives you an ointment and you pay the standard office visit fee. Three weeks later you still have this rash. She sends you to the dermatologist who prescribes something different and a specific diagnosis for your rash. You are charged the standard office fee. Where did you pay more? Who do you want teaching your children?

Daddy Daycare said...

Disturbing to read how students are using their technology at school. Shouldn't be a surprise though. If it's happening at one school, it's happening at all of them.

Proud NC Educator said...

Those that compare educators' pay to those of private sector employees are missing an important fact. Bankers, lawyers, doctors, other professionals can negotiate pay based on yearly evaluations. If they do not get what they want, they can go to another employer. Any training, certificates, or degrees earned can be used as leverage for hiring and compensation. As an educator, I would give up the flat pay scale, masters pay, and tenure if I could negotiate my pay based on my performance. However, it makes no sense if other teachers must fail in order for me to get my "bonus.". The current proposals have educators competing with one another where only a few will get what they earned, regardless of evaluations. Do private sector employees have this conversation..."Jane, your work is fantastic, results are above par, your review is flawless but I already have given out all the raises I can this year. Sorry, but keep up the good work.". I don't have an answer to how educators could be accurately compensated, however, it warrants indepth conversations beyond name calling and fault blaming.

Anonymous said...

Part One:One thing that all these posts have in common is anger.It is inappropriate to engage in bashing from either side on this issue. With respect to the comments related to other "real" jobs in which you do not get the benefit of the great benefits of ample vacation time we teachers are lucky to have, yes, it is true, most people employed in other jobs do not enjoy the same benefit. I have worked this summer in a "real job" at a large retailer for just over minimum wage to supplement my income as a teacher and will continue to do so throughout the year, thereby taking some time away I would spend on doing all the extras teachers are expected to do such as coaching, serving on committees, running an after school club, participating in professional development to improve my teaching, or researching for lesson plans- all of which, by the way are connected to our teacher appraisal instrument which ensures our continued employment.

Anonymous said...

Part 2: In this lies the difference between a "real job" and teaching. When I leave my "real job", I am done and if it were my only job, I could go home and "get a life." But even without my "real job" to supplement my income, my job as a teacher is never done. I don't merely work during the school day, now increased by 45 minutes and 5 extra days without compensation (which would not happen in a "real job"). I am up at 4 a.m. while most people are deep in REM sleep. I'm working on research, writing lesson plans, finding ways to make learning engaging and meet the needs of every child, each at their own level, to ensure they are prepared for pursuing their own dreams one day. I'm at the classroom door, waiting to greet your children with a smile, knowing that you have sent your child to school as his/her very best-whatever that may be, and ready to not only teach your child how to read and think, but how to interact with others, how to respect differences, how to be safe and fair, how to love learning and how to always try their best. I do so while also keeping the motto in mind-if this child was mine, how would I want him or her to be cared for in the classroom? I never forget that you, as a parent, entrust me with the well being of your most precious blessing. I am your child's greatest advocate, and I do so, knowing that sometimes, this could be at the detriment of my career, as administrators may have different expectations of me based on budget or state/district initiatives, not the well being of the child. It used to be that if you invested in a higher degree, you were compensated with higher pay so that you see a return in your investment. Most people pay for advanced degrees with high interest student loans. How else, but with a competitive income, is one supposed to pay these loans? Another thought also comes to mind regarding all the comments about these latest changes in NC education this summer. How many teachers have made comments here anonymously? And do you know why? FEAR. Fear that if we speak up on our own behalf, the reality is that there could be retaliation in the form of poor performance evaluations that Principals have the power to utilize in anyway they see fit. What other real jobs have this to worry about? So, as a result, there is a culture now created, at least in my district, of not only fear, but also a total devaluing of what we do and who we are. This is in contrast to basic business principals and theories that happy employees are more productive. Will teachers really be able to bring their best each day to your children, if they, themselves are operating out of fear and being totally devalued? Yes, we can quit, and hopefully get a "real job" if we don't like it, but chances are, we got into teaching for our love of children, and will continue to do our best for them. Legislators know this about us and take advantage of it by continuing to take more and more away from us, knowing that we have very limited resources, and are too fearful to advocate for ourselves. I suspect the nasty comments about teachers here, are coming from people that do not have children...at least this is my hope. I have yet to meet a teacher that doesn't have the best interest of his/her students, your children, OUR FUTURE, in mind each and every minute of each and every day.

Anonymous said...

My master's degree absolutely made me a better teacher.