Wednesday, October 1, 2014

North Carolina is 'worst state for teachers,' study says

North Carolina ranks as the worst state in the country for teachers, says a new study from a financial review site that's gotten a lot of attention this week.

According to the study, here's how North Carolina stacked up in the following categories:

  • 41st – Average Starting Salaries
  • 47th – Median Annual Salaries
  • 38th – Unemployment Rate
  • 51st – 10-Year Change in Teacher Salaries
  • 32nd – Pupil to Teacher Ratio
  • 48th – Public School Spending per Student
  • 43rd – Teachers Wage Disparity
  • 40th – Safest Schools
WalletHub comes out with a lot of rankings like this, though they're usually on business issues (i.e. "Best Student Checking Accounts" or "2014’s Best & Worst Entry Level Jobs").

Their methodology in the teacher study is also a bit interesting. Check it out for yourself here. It includes a ton of different factors beyond just job numbers and salaries, including "Percentage of Projected Population of Ages 5 to 17 by Year 2030." The study also takes into account a handful of other studies WalletHub has done in the past, like "Best and Worst States for Underprivileged Children Ranking."

Activist group Progress NC quickly turned the WalletHub study into a political statement:

“Here is yet more evidence that the right-wing political machine controlling state government is on a mission to ruin our public schools,” Executive Director Gerrick Brenner said in a statement. “Our state used to be a leader in public education. Now politicians like House Speaker Thom Tillis have driven North Carolina schools to the very back of the pack.”

U.S. Kay Hagan also posted about the report on her campaign website. She's locked in a tough race against Tillis for her seat.

The right side of the political spectrum took notice as well. Conservative blog Sister Toldjah pointed out that the WalletHub study looks at salary changes over a 10 year period. Democrats were in charge of the General Assembly for most of that time. Republicans grabbed the majority in 2010, and the governor's mansion in 2012.

90 comments:

Anonymous said...

No surprises here. The current ruling majority hates teachers. And the minority party backs methods and programs that waste money, burden teachers, and create mistrust. Teachers feel hopeless and not trusted.

Anonymous said...

It wont change overnight. Republicans have only had 2 years to reverse a 100 years of Democrat rules. Just curious....how you can you rank 51st in something?

Ray Jennings said...

Of course that idiot left wingers don't realize that Dems were in control of NC for the majority of the 10 years this study measures. Dems F it up for 8 of those years but blame EVERYTHING on Repubs for the last 2 yrs. Yeah that's logical......

Anonymous said...

Ruth Samuelson's and Thom Tillis' proudest moment!

republican=out of touch said...

What?? I just heard that nice man Thom Tillis tell us all that he has raised teacher pay by 7%. How could they be unhappy? What? Thom is a bald faced liar? OK, thanks.

Scooby Dumb said...

How NC treats it's educators and public education system is a travesty. However, for those like Progress NC who want to politicize it in partisan terms, both sides of the aisle have lots of blood on their hands.

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous that asked "..how can you rank 51st in something" Well, I believe it generally means you are worse than 49 states and the District of Columbia.

Anonymous said...

Washington D.C. counts that why NC is 51st in some measures. NC was in the 20s at the turn of the last century in teacher pay. It slipped into the 30s during the Easley years. When the recession hit republicans took over both houses and froze education to drop NC into the 40s. When the recession ended, despite a huge increase in revenue, the pay freeze continued and now NC is last. This rank reflects the numbers now and is not an eight year study. The 2014 pay increase for new teachers won't help NC in the rankings as it was paid for by reducing teacher assistants and ending longevity bonuses for veterans, notan increase in education spending. The new income tax formula instituted by Mcrory means NC won't be in position to change the deplorable state the recent legislators have let things get to. We are looking up to Mississippi.

Anonymous said...

"It includes a ton of different factors"

Did the author of this article really say that? A ton? Really. Where did HE go to school?

Anonymous said...

As a former Mississippian, I hate when you backwards thinking North Carolina folks like to compare yourselves to Mississippi. I am a product of Mississippi public schools. I graduated from a Mississippi public university and I am now working on my MBA. Mississippi graduates have flooded this state. Mississippi produces! North Carolina produces! What else do you want??

Anonymous said...

Teacher's should be paid more and more money should be allocated to schools, but some of this is flawed. 38th in unemployment??? There are plenty of schools that need teachers, flexibility is required, just as any other industry. 40th in school safety? I would love to see the criteria used to measure safety. As I before said, teachers deserve to get paid more, but if we saw a breakdown of hourly pay considering summer breaks, spring and christmas breaks, its hard to believe it would be drastically different than a 40-hour year round hourly worker. I'm guessing the average pay doesn't take municipal pay from teaching in counties like Mecklenburg, Orange and Wake either.

Andrew Dunn said...

Just trying to be a little conversational in the blog format, Anon 8:40.

Wiley Coyote said...

Interesting how during this time graduation rates have risen dramatically in NC and especially in CMS.

Gotta love the "education sky is falling" war cry....

While I agree teachers should get back money they have lost UNDER DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, doing so and even increasing salaries does not and will not affect the outcome of what little Johnny makes on a test, whether he graduates or whether he is part of closing the "achievement gap".

Wiley Coyote said...

There are 57 states.....just ask Obama.

GOPstupidity said...

The GOP right wing radicals are all chanting, "Mission Accomplished"!

Heckuva job running the state to the bottom, boys!

Anonymous said...

GOP...McCrory has been governor for 2 years, the republicans have controlled the state for less than 4. it would be democrat policies that lead to this and republicans not changing it. though their 7% teacher raise will improve things shortly.

Anonymous said...

Punishing teachers will NOT make little Johnny pass a magic state test. Think about it!

He said, she said...

"Just curious....how you can you rank 51st in something?"

District of Columbia is included in the survey.

Anonymous said...

The new formula seems to be working. More students are graduating on time (CMS is shining example), private money is fueling a renaissance in education at lower performing schools (W. Clt), more lottery money than ever is serving our needs, more languages than ever are spoken in our schools, breakfast and lunch are now provided for all that are in need, and thankfully the number of top administation positions who pull down 6 figure salaries is increasing.
All we need next is a union to protect the needs of the children.
What more could you asked for?

Anonymous said...

Are there any studies that show that when teacher salaries and benefits are higher, students learn better? If so, then maybe all of the liberals would support merit pay? Oh yeah, I almost forgot that merit pay is not supposed to work. So what is point in increasing taxes and paying teachers more if teachers don't respond to incentives?

I suppose all the liberals would like us to be more like California. In the Golden State, teachers are paid really well and the schools are awful. If North Carolina teachers had collective bargaining rights, we could have the same thing here.

Anonymous said...

7:56 it DID CHANGE OVERNIGHT. REPUBS COME IN, TEACHERS GET HAMMERED.

8:47 am Let's see...and hourly worker clocking in at 40 hours/week vs. a teacher who works 60 hours/week...yes, even with time off during the year (can't count summer because it is UNPAID and teachers work on a 10 MONTH CONTRACT) that's 2000 hours vs. 2280 for teachers.

280 hours is 7 extra weeks... hmmm...TWO EXTRA MONTHS...wow, no appreciable difference here? ... oh, and those other workers can get overtime; teachers can't.

Wait, at 40 hrs/week that other worker need to work 57 weeks to equal what teachers do?

Wait, executives put in lots of extra time at home without compensation? Of course they do, but their compensation ALREADY DWARFS that of teachers.

8:47 your argument is invalid.

Anonymous said...

11:13 am - yes there are studies to prove this...basically union states do outperform non-union.
and no, not merit pay but raising for salaries for all.

Anonymous said...


1) we need a follow up article / interview with Superintendent illustrating his reaction to these numbers. He's the guy in charge - he needs to comment.

2) we need to see a simple graph of historical data illustrating the demise over time - paying special attention to data surrounding pre/post recession.


3)

Wiley Coyote said...

Here's a very good read with stats from the BLS about teacher pay and why taxpayers really get screwed in the process.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenmeyer/2011/12/22/the-teacher-salary-myth-are-teachers-underpaid/

11:20...tell us how those large union school districts like NY, Chicago and Detroit are outperforming CMS....

Andrew Dunn said...

Anon 11:31, I, too, would love to see how this changed over time. This appears to be WalletHub's first take on the subject, though.

Anonymous said...

That's certainly bound to attract business to North Carolina!

Anonymous said...

So some of you want to lower teacher pay because society is sending them dysfunctional students who can't pass the magic test? You want to penalize them financially for things they cannot control? Brilliant. NO ONE of any quality is going to be left in the classroom.

Anonymous said...

With the tax cuts that have been passed and the current budget gap that can not be covered due to decreased revenue, the best is yet to come.

Anonymous said...

11:13: That's a convenient argument. You're saying that if you pay teachers more collectively, they do a better job. But you can't pay them individually according to how well they do their jobs because teachers don't respond to individual incentives.

Your argument flies against common sense, but fits the pro-union narrative.

Pamela Grundy said...

11:55: If teacher salaries were higher overall (and if there was less crazy testing), the job would be more attractive to young people, who would be more likely to choose teaching as a profession and more likely to stay on the job (currently, about 50 percent of starting teachers leave the profession before they reach the five-year mark, which is the experience level at which teachers really start to shine).

Generally, teachers do the best job they know how to for their students (which is why incentives don't work). What this country could really use is a more stable teacher corps drawn from a larger pool.

The problem with "merit" pay is that it doesn't fit well with good teaching, which requires collaboration and cannot be easily measured in hard-and-fast numbers the way that something like sales performance can. Efforts to fit the round peg of teaching into the square, generally test-focused hole of "merit" have proven to be inaccurate, time-consuming, divisive and unfair, generally driving away more good teachers than they have attracted.

Wiley Coyote said...

11:13...

How long do you think an inept doctor would be on the staff of any major hospital in Charlotte?

Teachers whine and whine they want to be treated like "other professionals".

Okay, let's start firing the inept teachers and paying the ones who perform the best more money.

The problem is that taxpayers have no say in the process and in states where unions rule, it's basically teachers deciding their own salaries and benefits because they line the pockets of politicians so they can get re-elected. It's a cycle with no end.

Anonymous said...

Why all the fuss? We will have virtual schools soon enough (CMS strategic plan 2018). No need for teachers, no worries.

Anonymous said...

Gosh, forget trying to teach kids statistics while in middle school or high school, it is obviously now more important to teach them about the risks of social media! Trying to give all kids rigorous academic training has failed catastrophically when most high school graduates cannot function in introductory college courses, but the bastardization of what is supposed to be academic instruction only accelerates, thank you educational software companies and school district officials, and no one seems to perceive the need and importance of other means of socialization and training of youth.

There are so many bad assumptions that have come out the faddism with which we have replaced traditional pedagogy now accepted as self-evident, like all the kids in a class glued to a screen working at their own pace on their own material; this is obviously a good thing - Not!

Garth Vader said...

Their #1 state for teachers - Wyoming - is also their #1 state for taxpayers.

So they endorse a NO vote on the November sales tax referendum.

Anonymous said...

The teachers union is a pure Democrat organization that forces teachers to join and support only Democrats. The Democrats and union lose and they they start whinning. End the union and things will improve. Until then .. tough. I hope you don't get a raise.

Anonymous said...

A large fraction of the teachers here have to be imported because few are majoring in education in our state. The word is out to prospective employees elsewhere, avoid NC. That is why Tillis and his gang tried to fool everyone and just raise the new teachers salaries. Sorry Thom, that kind of stuff works on a used car lot but not with recent graduates who are savvy to what their future as teachers will look like here. Go west and north young man!

Anonymous said...

It's hysterical how after so many decades of Democratic control of the NC state legislature as the chickens come home to roost from their policies it's suddenly the Republican's fault.

What do you propose? I'm certain the state legislatures return to Democratic control, so the recent changes to actually improve the stat's competitiveness are stopped!!

This is all just a bunch of liberal, union loving whining....

Anonymous said...

The distrust and shenanigans by school administrators has more to do with the CMS teacher retention issue than many would expect.

from x teacher

Anonymous said...

You do realize the "Study" was written by a man who is a regular HUFFINGTON POST contributor and liberal. I'm sure this has everything to do with an election and nothing to do with a study. And the Charlotte Observer gladly runs with a far left wing study.

Anonymous said...

MOrrison and BofE

When the quarter of a cent tax hike passes and you have almost an extra $30 million to spend in your BILLION dollar budget, how are you going to do it ?

There have been no answers about how the veteran teachers getting the 0.03 percent raise are going to be compensated. There has only been rumors about making them equal to the 18% raise teachers.

DUNN
Can you ask the hard questions and more important wade through the smoke and mirror PR barrage to find the honest answers ?

Anonymous said...

MOrrison and BofE

When the quarter of a cent tax hike passes and you have almost an extra $30 million to spend in your BILLION dollar budget, how are you going to do it ?

There have been no answers about how the veteran teachers getting the 0.03 percent raise are going to be compensated. There has only been rumors about making them equal to the 18% raise teachers.

DUNN
Can you ask the hard questions and more important wade through the smoke and mirror PR barrage to find the honest answers ?

The Freeholder said...

Democrats ran this state for how many years but somehow this is the fault of "right wing Republicans"? Sorry, that dog don't hunt. Lay the blame at your own feet, for the decades of failed education policies and failed "experiments".

Anonymous said...

Wiley, so you are saying there are no inept doctors at major Charlotte hospitals? How would we judge that - malpractice suits? So no doctors at major Charlotte hospitals have been sued for malpractice? You have data on that?

How do prove which teachers are better than others? Test scores? Yeah that's rich...c'mon Wiley, you've never taught, please share your speculation about how we can choose these high performers.



Anonymous said...

And major corporations NEVER Line the pockets of politicians so they can get re-elected, do they Wiley?

Don't hate the players, Wiley, hate the game.

Anonymous said...

Freeloader, really? You can't see the damage the republicans have done to this state over the last few years?

People nationally can - makes me wonder Why you can't?

Anonymous said...

Who cares what party is in charge ?

Both are just a buch of lame @** spenders. Both have driven quality teachers out of the profession and have allowed education to drop out of the Top 25 in the world.

17 TRILLION in debt yet my sallary and benefits has fallen for the past six years. Bring on scientology , martian , tea, libertarian or anything else party. It sure as hell couldn't get much worse for teachers in this state.

Anonymous said...

ANONYMOUS 5:27,
With your skilled and tactful requests for information, I'm surprised anyone would pay attention to you. Maybe you can wade through the smoke and mirrors to figure it out for all of us since the tax hike is not a given based on previous elections and the general distrust of your buddy MO and the BOEzos.

Anonymous said...

Anon, 5:27 You said:

DUNN
Can you ask the hard questions and more important wade through the smoke and mirror PR barrage to find the honest answers ?

=>>You have to realize that right now we're in a close election and the Charlotte Observer needs to generate headlines that can be used against Tillis. There will be time for more balanced reporting next year. October is crunch time and the press needs to generate stories to make Tillis look bad.

You can expect Andrew's bosses to run their endorsement of Hagan on the editorial page any day now. It's all hands on deck from now until November 4 at the Observer.

Anonymous said...

There are still a couple of HUNDRED job openings for teachers just in CMS. The real story is the several HUNDRES of classes being taught by teachers WITHOUT a certified teaching liscense. It is a dirty little story that nobody wants to talk about.Thousands of students being taught by UNQUALIFIED people within the classroom. They are willing to work at whatever price and CMS knows it

Wiley Coyote said...

5:42....

Go back and read what I posted. Here, I'll make it easy for you:

How long do you think an inept doctor would be on the staff of any major hospital in Charlotte?

I asked that question. Here, I'll answer it for you:

Not very long!

The point is, an inept doctor or nurse can be fired immediately and complaints can be filed against them with state boards.

How long do you think it would take to fire an underperforming teacher? A long time! We can file a complaint with the school district but that's about it.

From the LA Times:

* Building a case for dismissal is so time-consuming, costly and draining for principals and administrators that many say they don't make the effort except in the most egregious cases. The vast majority of firings stem from blatant misconduct, including sexual abuse, other immoral or illegal behavior, insubordination or repeated violation of rules such as showing up on time.

* Although districts generally press ahead with only the strongest cases, even these get knocked down more than a third of the time by the specially convened review panels, which have the discretion to restore teachers' jobs even when grounds for dismissal are proved.

* Jettisoning a teacher solely because he or she can't teach is rare. In 80% of the dismissals that were upheld, classroom performance was not even a factor.

When teaching is at issue, years of effort -- and thousands of dollars -- sometimes go into rehabilitating the teacher as students suffer. Over the three years before he was fired, one struggling math teacher in Stockton was observed 13 times by school officials, failed three year-end evaluations, was offered a more desirable assignment and joined a mentoring program as most of his ninth-grade students flunked his courses.

From the Times Union in NY:

According to a state Education Department database obtained by the Times Union through a Freedom of Information request, it appears to be nearly impossible for a school district to fire a tenured public school teacher. The reason is twofold: job protection for unionized teachers is strong and the process for firing bad teachers — called a 3020-a hearing — is so drawn out and costly that most districts can’t afford it.

Because it is so expensive and difficult, school districts outside of New York City are far less likely to even attempt to fire troubled educators although they enroll almost twice as many students, according to the comprehensive database of 2,087 3020-a hearings filed from 2006 to June 2011.

“It’s cheaper to pay them a salary and stick them in a corner somewhere than go through the 3020-a process,” said Sharon Sweeney, executive director of the Four County School Boards Association, based in Wayne County. She said the 27 small districts she represents have only tried to fire about a dozen educators in 15 years, a number that does not reflect the reality of workplaces with thousands of employees.

Anonymous said...

I guess I missed your deep dive into personalized learning and if the other schools are getting fleeced for cash like HRES.

Wiley Coyote said...

5:58...

Based on recent history in Mecklenburg County, the sales tax passing is a pretty good bet.

Look at the last bond vote that passed by 74% of the vote.

We're still spending bond money from 2007...

Anonymous said...

Wiley,
This is where you and I differ in our views. In most cases, I believe the teachers are not the problem , the home in which the child is raised in usually is the culprit. Study after study has shown this to be the case.

One of the most famous studies was mentioned in the book by Malcolm Gladwell, "The Outliers". The study was conducted by a professor of Psychology at Stanford, Lewis Terman. I would also encourage you to read the works of Dr. Dianne Ravitch and a new book just released, "Teacher Wars".

Schools are a reflection of the values and culture of the communities in which they serve. The most important factor when researching the success or failure of a student is the home in which they were raised.

If you don't believe me, look no further than your school system, the top performing schools are generally the ones with less diversity and less poverty. In essence, the more affluent the school, the higher academic achievement.

If we don't do more for our teachers, we are sealing our own fate. Who is going to take up the challenge to teach if they are going to worry about making ends meet month after month. And to top if off, be disrespected by both politicians and the general public.

Anonymous said...

funny but I don't see many if anyone blaming the teachers. If anything, the teachers should blame those in the downtown ivory tower, and some working in their own school houses for messing up this disctrict and the job of educating our children. They have created a big mess, and guess who has to deal with it? The teachers.

Anonymous said...

If you got rid of the "inept" teachers in CMS there would be THOUSANDS of job openings instead of the HUNDREDS of openings and classes taught by unqualified people in the classroom.

What is the solution? Getting a TFA to patch something for 2 years so they can pay off their student loans?

Anonymous said...

District of Columbia... DC

Jeff Wise said...

I'm sorry Wiley, your comment about union teachers dictating their own pay and lining the pockets of politicians is wrong.

My brother has been one of the negotiators in his union at his small Ohio district for years and listening to him recount the process, it is nowhere near the stereotyping that you and others claim it to be on this board.

Maybe you're close for large city districts like Chicago or NYC or Detroit, but the majority of unionized school districts (at least as I'm aware) are small and do not conform to the machinations that you screed about on here.

Furthermore (addressing all the comments, not specifically Wiley), it takes 2 sides to agree right? I don't believe teacher unions are holding guns to anyone's heads when they negotiate and this is the land of capitalism right?

So why is it okay for a so-called businessman to make as much profit as he can but it's not okay for teachers to bargain for extra salary?

Why is it okay for CEO's to demand multi-million dollars employment contracts and have all those costs passed on to consumers, but it's not okay for teachers to ask for a 5% raise, or better benefits?

Anonymous said...

North Carolina is not LA.... Really??? Bad comparison, what a joke!!!!

Anonymous said...

It's funny how much praise TFA teachers get... Studies show they are not as good as experienced teachers. They do perform slightly better then other new teachers but do not last long enough to make a real difference. It's a joke... TFA has had control of the DC schools for almost a decade. It's not really getting better.. Teachers can not replace parents. They are not psychologist or welfare providers. Even privileged children from America's elite fall short of a mom and dad... Common sense would have saved millions in studies.

Wiley Coyote said...

8:53...

You say we differ but then you haven't read much of what I have posted here over the years.

I constantly state teachers aren't the problem.

Anonymous said...

Wiley...you said inept, then changed to underperforming...hmm...very different connotations...but you knew that I'm sure and didn't think anyone would call you on it.

You also didn't answer either question. C'mon buddy, give it a shot.

Anonymous said...

hey here's another one...can the doctor be fired when he gives wonderful advice and the patient doesn't follow the instructions? No way anyone would fault the doctor there.

But take a teacher who presents a wonderful lesson and the student doesn't do the work and you blame the "underperforming" teacher?

Hypocrite.

Anonymous said...

This is a big school district, with big school district problems, not a small town in Ohio.

Wiley Coyote said...

11:36...

Inept or underperforming. It makes no difference. You get the gist of the comment, but if you want to debate semantics, I'm up for it.

If you would rather send your kid to class with a teacher that has consistantly underperformed, by all means do so.

Wiley Coyote said...

11:40...

You seemed to have completely missed the comparison...

Wiley Coyote said...

Jeff...

I posted a link to an article by Warren Meyer in Forbes earlier which said this:

....But it is for this very reason that I am suddenly scrupulous about public teacher’s pay — because I don’t have that choice. The government enforces a school monopoly in which I have to pay for the public schools, whether I have kids in their schools or not. I am thus required by law to pay public school salaries.

Public school teachers consume a large portion of state and local taxes. According to the 2010 census, public school teachers and instructors in primary and secondary schools (ie ignoring colleges) constitute 30% of the 14.8 million state and local government workers, and if you throw in public school administrators as well as higher education the total rises to over 50%. No other category of government worker is even close to this large. Police and fire department employment, even when combined, is only a fifth the size of public education.

The problem with salaries for government workers like teachers is that, in a monopoly (particularly one enforced by law), the usual checks and balances on compensation simply don’t exist. Let’s say a private school gives its teachers a big raise, and has to raise its tuitions to pay for those higher salaries. Parents are then left with a choice as to whether to accept the higher tuitions, or to look elsewhere. If they accept the higher fees, then great — the teachers make more money which is justified by the fact that their customers percieve them to be offering higher value. If they do not accept the higher tuition, the school withers and either changes its practices or goes out of business.

But what happens when the state overpays for teachers (or any government employee)? Generally, the govenrment simply demands more taxes. Sure, voters can push back, but seldom do they win in a game dominated by concentrated benefits but dispersed costs. On a per capita basis, teachers always have more to fight for than taxpayers, and are so well-organized they often are one of the dominant powers in electing officials in states like California. This leads to the financially unhealthy situation of a teachers’ union negotiating across the table from officials who owe their office to the teachers’ union.


Meyer is spot on. As taxpayers, we have limited ability to affect the outcome of government salaries, of which teachers are a part of and it is even more difficult, if not impossible in union states.

Anonymous said...

Warren Meyer's column is all about opinion with very little facts, completely "made up" scenarios and NC does not even have a union (right to work state) and of course no "collective bargaining."

Wiley Coyote said...

8:55
You mean just like here?....

I guess the stats from the BLS are just opinion as well....

Jeff Wise said...

Wiley - fair points, and would be an interesting back-and-forth discussion.

I think taxpayers do have some leverage, particular in states like Ohio where schools put levies on the ballot for funding.

Those ballot items are the taxpayers' way of checking the unions. It may not be direct, but it sends a message and I think - but completely unofficial, I have no verifiable proof, but would be interesting to see the research - the school districts that have troubles passing levies also have lower teacher salaries across the board.

Bigger point though, my hunch is smaller school districts probably have lower salary ranges in general than the larger districts and that those unions are more sensitive to their community's ability to support that.

I'm guessing someone somewhere has done a study that looks at this?

Anonymous said...

WILEY- We do not have a teachers union in NC. NC is a "right to work" state which means we as public employees are not allowed to unionize, strike, collective-bargin, etc.

This is not California, Ohio, or any other unionized state. Our salary is set by the legislature, and counties/cities have the legal ability to supplement salaries.

Our salaries were frozen under democrats, but the republicans have raised the cost of our benefits (net loss of income every year) and now the new salary scale is so much less than the previous one. Teachers with 30+ years experience would have actually LOST money with the new "raise" and were simply allowed to continue their salary with a one-time $1000 bonus. They also took away longevity to give us the raise, which means the raise isn't anywhere near 7% for anyone but teachers in years 1-10. The NCDPI has the data- more than half of all teachers in NC are in the 10-20 year range.

Anonymous said...

With the loss of pay for advanced degrees and a stagnant salary scale (no increase for five year increments) and no adjustment for the cost of inflation no one who is not already vested in this state should consider teaching in NC a viable career.

Wiley Coyote said...

What I previously posted was in response to other posters as a differing opinion which I may or may not agree with or maybe certain points.

I've said many times I believe most teachers are good teachers.

In the 13 years my son was in CMS, he had two teachers in my opinion that shouldn't be teaching anywhere.

As a taxpayer, I can't sue a teacher for being a lousy one. As a parent, all I can do is request my child be moved to a different class and even then that may not happen.

The last bond passed by 74%... the one in 2007 also passed. The only time in recent memory taxpayers/parents made a stand and sent a message was in 2005 when that bond was rejected and in the late 90's when Cappaccione and other parents sued CMS over racial quotas.

I'm betting voters will approve the tax increase in November.

Wiley Coyote said...

11:05

I'm fully aware teachers in NC are not union and never said or indicated they were.

Anonymous said...

NC "worst state for teachers" - I think some would argue it's not the best place for students either.

Anonymous said...

"The biggest issue is, all these numbers show the sad reality that our school systems have not been teaching children how to read,” board vice chairman A.L. Collins said.

with new 10 point grading scale Graduation rates are surely on the rise. No worries.

Wiley Coyote said...

Students get a 50 for just putting their name on a paper and get a passing D with a grade of 60.

What do we call 51 through 59, a Black Hole?

You can't make this stuff up.

Wiley Coyote said...

This pretty much sums up the dumbing down of America:

Advocates for the change say the reasoning is simple. A student in Atlanta who earned a grade of 91 in all of his classes would have a 4.0 average. In North Carolina, that same student would have a 3.0.

Simple reasoning? That's comical.

Simple reasoning would make grades harder, not easier and put everyone on the same 93 to 100 scale to make an A, not lower it.

Anonymous said...

We'll never fix this as long as we keep it political… it's not! It's about children and those who want to help them learn.

josty24 said...

Not all education takes place in the classroom. A student is also a product of how they were raised and not just how they perform in the classroom. Parents try educating the youth and stop relying on other to take care of it for you.

Anonymous said...

Customers beware - Be aware that CMS is an education factory.

If your child requires extra attention or has a learning issue, please do not look at CMS as a viable option. It would be very difficult for your child to have success at CMS.

Anonymous said...

11:05 The fact that North Carolina is a right to work state does not mean that the state has no teacher's union. The local union is called the NCAE. The NCAE is one of best-funded lobbying groups in the state. The NCAE is funding TV ads denouncing Tillis and sending a message: don't cross us.

The NCAE's own web site describes itself as a "Union representing teachers in the state." The NCAE has a large budget and staff whose purpose is to lobby for the vocational interests of teachers. The organization is an affiliate of the NEA, which is one of the nation's most powerful unions.

The NCAE influences local board of education elections and gets people elected who fight for the vocational interests of teachers. CMS's board of education has several former NCAE members and sympathizers. CMS's board of education chair is even the former head of the local NCAE group!

You can keep saying that North Carolina has no union, but then what would you call the NCAE? A teacher's networking group? I don't think so.

Anonymous said...

CMS bends over backwards for "special" children. The problem is teachers still expects them to put effort in and not use their disability as a crutch. Some parents will not except this. They want every thing given to their child. The is a BS argument.

Anonymous said...

That is not true. Our experience has been special needs children get neglected and ignored in the classroom. CMS does not care. They more concerned with their image than teaching.

Anonymous said...

North Carolina does not have school reps for teachers. NC schools does not have school elections for local reps. NC teachers do not have union reps in discipline hearings. Some right to work states (like NV) have Union negotations for contracts. NC does not. The majority of NC teachers do not pay dues or give money to NCAE. I am not a big fan of unions and I lean right but I think union is a buzz word. NC is not a union state.

Anonymous said...

Administration may be but from my experience the teachers care. That's one of the problem's with NC.. We hear from politicians and administration but rarely here from teachers and students.

Anonymous said...

With 30-35 students in a class teachers can't be expected to be all things to all people.

Anonymous said...

Who cares... This is a non issue... Most places are on a 10pt scale. I don't care either way.

Anonymous said...

Agree 100% with some of the commenters here. If your child has ADHD or dyslexia, or a processing issue but does not qualify to be an EC student,
CMS cannot do anything for that student. This is why parents spend so much time and money getting tutors after school. Cms teachers just can't do it all. That is a fact.

Anonymous said...

CMS Grad rates on the rise with new 10 point grading scale and the elimination of Senior Exit project.

Anonymous said...

Good